What was the final total from the '05 auction?

[Houstonherp]

Hey all -

I see the heat is dying down on this thread, so I'll throw in my two cents...after all, it won't even buy a piece of gum any more...

I have served in many non-profit board positions, including president of the local herpetological society at one time. And I can tell you how frustrating it is! In fact, that's why I wouldn't personally consider being a board member (not that I have the CP experience necessary anyway). I would much rather prefer growing plants than dealing with the headaches of administration. No matter what you do, you're bound to irritate someone. And those are the people you always hear from; NOT the ones who think you're doing a great job. Those who have been trying to get the NASC up and running: I take my hat off to you!

Quite frankly, one of the reasons I am enjoying being part of the CP community SOOOOO very much is that most CPers share my goals: share what information you have, whether that's in the form of educational programs, plants, expertise, WHATEVER. Believe me when I say that as a group, CPers are FAR superior than herpers. Most of them just want to go out and catch another snake so they can stick it in a cage and sell its offspring. But I digress...

It takes a great deal of commitment to take on a board position for a non-profit organization. Couple that with the fact that this is a brand NEW organization, and you might as well just quit your day job!

I think I would steer toward keeping this as a loose-knit group of Sarracenia enthusiasts, rather than a formal non-profit. That way everyone's energies can be used for the matter at hand: conservation of Sarracenia! Otherwise there will be a huge amount of man hours used in the pursuit/maintenance of said non-profit org. It sounds like Bugweed has figured that out...LOL!

As for Casper, this needs to be dealt with, and fast. Since I was not directly involved in this issue, that's all I feel I have a right to say.

As for the 2005 auction proceeds, this one I DID have an interest in, both as a buyer and seller. I would agree that it might be prudent to donate this money to a good cause now, rather than have it sitting around for someone to try to grab in a lawsuit. I would much rather have this money donated to Botanique than The Nature Conservancy. TNC gets loads of money already, and there would be no guarantee that our auction money would be used for CP habitat conservation. For all intents and purposes, Rob already HAS the North American Sarracenia Conservancy. Why not let our money help his efforts?

I was contacted a long time ago and asked how I wished to help the NASC. I said I wanted to grow plants, and that I have a greenhouse to do so. I've been waiting ever since. How long does the board expect 'ME' (meaning all of us that want to help in ways OTHER than on the board) to continue waiting? Let's just be a nice friendly group please.

Mike

 

[Copper]

Hello all.  As earlier stated by PAC, I still have some health issues and my work has become insane.  The house has finally been repaired from the storm and I am going to buy another computer so that I can have one to use.  With that said I apologize fully for my absenteeism.  If you will still have me I would still volunteer for the board.  Pak your resignation was voted on and decided that we would rather not except it.  It was that cause of miscommunication and my fault.

The NASC issue should not be closed and needs to be kept alive.  The main problem was a way for the main board to communicate.  I think this would best be done through email.  The meeting thing just was not working.  Ozzy, you will make a good president.

I have checked into non-profit status and we can get it done.  I have a lawyer friend that will do it for paper cost.

The Casper issue is difficult.  It is not that I do not want to do anything, I can not.  I used non-lawenforcement means to find out if Casper was alive.  He was (prior to the Hurricane) still living in LA.  The problem is one of paper.  We need records to show what money was made and that Paul actually had his hands on it.  It is an issue of proving beyond a resonable doubt that he intended to and did steal the money.  We have no paper records.  There are no receipt books or ledgers.  We all know the guilt, but proving it is another thing.  Welcome to my world.  The messages written on this line do not prove that anything actually happened.  We need his bank records, if he had any.  Then it would be tough to prove the money was ours.  The court is a very odd creature and hard to handle.  I am not saying that I do not care about what Casper did, but I think we need to move on.  

As for the money, Phil we all trust you (and will hunt you down

 )

Bugweed, Pak, Ozzy, Schloats, and the rest, Can I come back to work now?

 

[JBL]

Although I am not a board member--only a contributor in both auctions--I for one welcome a voice of reason such as yours. Better watch out or we'll all be sending you more plants! How's that for a threat?

 

[LauraZ5]

Greetings. 0zzy, you are not the President as the torch just can’t be passed the way it was.  What has occurred based on the disappearance of Casper may be felony theft in most jurisdictions however that is not the only issue of concern. According to Counsel, “we” became a partnership/association once money was raised and “we” all share personal liability for how this partnership/association is run. One of the reasons why the NASC should have incorporated a long time ago was to shield all participants from liability. Even if it didn’t incorporate out the gate as a not for profit, it should have been incorporated with all prior acts ratified.  There are other concerns in that the NASC may currently be a do novo corporation based on acts and representations made by members.

Quote[/b] ] Posted by Bugweed on Oct. 16 2005,9:44
I call we have an immediate meeting of the board, and members, to discuss our options on pursuing the Casper incident.

At the advice of Counsel and as a NASC Board member, I have been advised to second Bugweed’s motion for the purpose of voting on the following issues:
1) Pursuit of Casper
2) Incorporation of the NASC as a for profit corporation with the provision that all prior acts be ratified within a reasonable amount of time not to exceed 30 days or incorporation of the NASC with the provision that all prior acts be ratified as well as submission of a 501 (c ) application to the IRS for consideration also within a reasonable amount of time not to exceed 30 days from October 29. 2005.  
3) Procuring FEIN #s, it’s a simple phone call to Kansas
4) Selection of a state to incorporate the NASC.
5) Release of auction money to the Finance Chair to open a bank account for the NASC as well as authority to disburse money to retain an attorney and to incorporate the NASC as well as to disburse money for filing fees.
6) Nomination of a new President possibly, 0zzy?, and voting that person in.

Pursuant to Robert’s Rules of Order, 10 days notice is being given and the date, location, and time are provided below-

October 29th, right here in a new thread at Terra in The US National Sarracenia Collection Forum at 8pm central time.

 

[Bugweed]

Laura, I can make that date by 6 p.m. my time, 8 central. Is that acceptable??

 

[LauraZ5]

Yup, I will go and edit the post.  That was merely a suggestion but I'm still before midnight.

Welcome back Copper!

 

[Sarraceniaobsessed]

I will be attending the board meeting on the 29th to ratify the above mentioned business in Laura's post. I think the Casper/ Paul issue should have been persued. I hope anybody that is on the board will do the same. I have always wanted to do the right thing by incorporating and getting our legal ducks in a row or not do this (form the NASC) it at all. Thank you Bugweed for calling for this board meeting and Laura for seconding it.

 

[Ozzy]

As I said before Welcome back Rose, you just don't know how much you were missed.

Laura, I am the president, because the only intact members of the board pass the torch to me when there was nobody else here to take it. When I agreed to take it I told all of the members of the board that was in contact, that If Rose came back and wanted to still be part of it I would be glad to hand her control. As a matter of fact, I've already offered it to her in a PM before I ever read the new posts here.
Laura I don't want to sound cold or "petty" but you have said many times that you don't want nothing to do with the NASC, and you all but called us a bunch of fools, publicly. If this is all true why do you still act as if you are involved? And who gave you the right to call a board meeting? From your own words you are not part of the NASC and I don't reconize your right to call a meeting.

 

[Bugweed]

Relax, Oz. I called it, and Laura seconded it. Nuff said. Laura understands this stuff pretty good, so we follow this lead, and learn. Good idea, huh?

 

[Copper]

The pursuit of Casper thing. It can be discussed at the meeting, but I have been through internet based crime. You need to understand. The laws have been changed this year and either where the crime originated (LA) or where the victim is (too many and amounts too small if separated) can pursue criminal action. Do you think LA is going to do anything right now?

Plus, we must be able to prove the crime. I have talked to criminal lawyers and they say no way, but that is Adams County where you are safe if you drink and drive. Is there any paperwork from last years auction, any at all? I have worked with Federal Agencies due to internet fraud and have been told many times, no way.

If you like I do have a Federal contact for this type of thing. Since I am one of the victims I will report it to him and see if he can do anything.

 

[LauraZ5]

Umm, maybe wait for the Board meeting to see what the vote is. From there he could be reported. The Board could meet again to determine if it wants to go further and take a look at associated costs of doing so. There would most assuredly be costs that would need to be weighed against possible gains that the Board would need to examine carefully.

 

[Copper]

Exactly. Without documentation and contracts we are without legal footing in a criminal issue. It would have to go to a tort. This would probably cost more than we made. Let it go.

 

[Ozzy]

I totally agree with Rose. As much as I hate being victimized, I think it's a losing cause on our part. We screwed up by letting him collect the money, we admit that. But we have nothing to gain by going after Casper and a lot to lose. The board will vote on this issue and the outcome will be FINAL!

 

[Ozzy]

You know Laura you have pushed this issue for so long, and you have always been gun ho on going after him. What you posted above is the complete oppisite from your nomal position and is almost what I have been saying for a year now. I think that's really odd

 

[LauraZ5]

Bringing it to a vote to pursue (report) him is the first issue. Either the majority of the Board votes to pursue (report) him or it doesn't.

Voting to pursue litigation is an entirely different issue for the Board to vote on at a later date if it even so desires to do so. Unfortunately, the costs of pursuing him beyond just basically reporting him, most probably would eat up what precious funds are left to go towards conservancy.

 

[philcula]

Quote[/b] (0zzy @ Oct. 20 2005,10:12)]You know Laura you have pushed this issue for so long, and you have always been gun ho on going after him. What you posted above is the complete oppisite from your nomal position and is  almost what I have been saying for a year now. I think that's really odd

I think the proper adult response should have been..."Laura I'm really happy you are having this change of heart. This is what I've been saying for almost a year now. Maybe you would be willing to help guide us along either as a member or a consulting casual observer"

But the sarchasm continues. Let's get over ourselves here and start acting like role models for the countless young people who read these threads. I myself do not wish to ever be involved with an organization (NASC) run by members who just....can't...let...go!

If Laura has now had a change of heart then perhaps her heart is in the RIGHT place and everyone should be thankful for that. There's no law that says you have to like each other but you DO have to act like level headed adults if you ever want this project to be supported.

I'm sorry if my feelings hurt you in any way Ozzy. That's not my intention. I have a lot of respect for what you're trying to accomplish. Good luck with your project. I hope you are able to reach your goals. Unfortunately I will not be a part of it.

God Speed.

 

[Bugweed]

Ozzy, I have been saying the same as Phil, just a different approach. Laura is trying to help, so please, drop the animosity as we have no time for it, and it IS counter productive. Everyone needs to be on the same page where the discussion and vote is, and not airing your own personal greivances towards another. Drop that stuff and get on board with the rest of us and either make this work, or don't be here at all. But those choices are still yours, and I won't be the one to tell you to go away. I would rather you helped.

 

[aprilh]

It's too late to pursue Casper...why it wasn't done at the time is a total mystery to me. It boggles the mind. "Friendship" my fanny.  Friends don't take long-long-long term loans from you unless they ask first. I'm sure his home got blown away in Katrina or Rita, though, so now there's another layer of excuses y'all can use for him. .  But that's okay...'cuz it's the board members who would be held legally accountable, anyway, if someone decides to file a complaint.

I work at a non-profit that has billions of dollars to worry over.

Last I checked, it costs $100 dollars to incorporate in Chicago. All you got to have is an EIN and an ability to fill out forms. It's also real cheap in Delaware, which is WHY so many companies incorporate there.

Oh, and by the way...sarcasm, while satisfying to the person who wields it...is not a presidential calibre personality attribute.

Good luck with the NASC!

Aprilh

 

[Ozzy]

Nobody has made any excuses for Casper, only people who wasn't here at the time making false accusations.

 

[aprilh]

Hmmmmmm....he has disappeared with other people's money for well over a year now.

It sounds on the up and up to me!