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Thread: SUGGESTION BOX!  Ideas Welcome!

  1. #17
    herenorthere's Avatar
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    I'm one of the last minute regional head growers and I'll chime in to say that I think I understand what PoWeRPSUHort is thinking about cronyism in NASC. For very similar reasons, I had decided during the original incarnation of NASC that I wouldn't have anything to do with it beyond contributing plants to auctions. Getting a snotty reply once from our former friend Casper certainly helped make that decision. But I have more trust in the new leadership and maybe a better understanding now of how an online organization has to operate.

    What can look like a crony system in NASC isn't; it's really a small number of highly motivated people trying to get things done. They communicate by PM or whatever and it's easy for those of us who are out of the loop to question what's really going on. Even to suspect a crony system. That's a fact of life NASC will have to deal with because we don't want to lose people who have something to contribute. Even if some of what they contribute is criticism.

    Nuance is lost when communicating this way and let's try to take all criticism as constructive criticism.
    Bruce in CT

    Madness is something rare in individuals but in groups, parties, peoples, ages it is the rule. Friedrich Nietzsche

  2. #18
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    I am also one of the 'last minute' regional growers. I PMd Rose and outlined my experience--over 14 years as a grower of Sarracenia, and many years beyond that as an experienced grower of perennials. As an FYI, I have had no contact with Rose in the past. She does not know me at all--so much for cronyism. My reason for not wanting to participate in the NASC is quite different. I was getting sick of what I believed were negative comments by some designed more to cast aspersions on people than to be truly helpful. In my mind, this is quite different from constructive criticism, and use of words such as 'cronyism' are clearly pejorative and do not connote a desire to be helpful. I think that it is entirely appropriate to question the experience and qualifications of growers; you did this quite well with your first sentence PoWeRPSUHort. What followed is what has raised hackles. And while it may be reasonable that people will 'suspect' things such as cronyism, putting it out in a public forum is not a way to gain cooperation. Think about whether you would act this way in the work force, or in school, and what the results would be. You can always question things in a mature manner. This tactic gets answers rather than questions of what motivates such a confrontational attitude.
    My chicken legs taste like chicken--only less meaty.

  3. #19

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    Maybe this will help him out.


    My Experience: 43 years growing ALL forms of CP from every corner of the globe. I have good company, and my friends. My friends are:
    Joe Mazrimas, co founder of the ICPS and the Carnivorous Plant Newsletter.
    Carl Mazur, Current President of the ICPS.
    Barry Rice, Conservation Officer of the ICPS. Funny guy, and very nice man. Enjoy his company.
    Peter D'Amato, owner of California Carnivores, and Author of, "The Savage Garden".
    Phil Faulisi, LONG time grower of sarracenia, and a whole lot more! Has the largest personal sarracenia collection I know of.
    And if I keep this up, just about everyone on this forum. Our common goal, to raise and propagate carnivorous plants, and infect others with our obsession. And to argue POLITICS! (I love that part!) If having many friends is cronyism, well, maybe. But I still call them friends, and the ones that are members here have a vote to state their piece, and move their organization forward.
    Incidently, we have the support and enthusiasm of all those friends named above, and if the ICPS backs us, and Barry Rice of that organization is kept in the loop, well, I think that deflates any other fears you should have. Otherwise, I would think anything else you have to accuse us of, is going to fall on deaf ears. Maybe you should read all the threads you can on our start, and what we hope to achieve, then maybe your cynicism will disappear. Now THAT would be nice. -------Or are you a crony of a bad attitude??



    45 yrs. growin\'
    Founder NASC

  4. #20
    Moderator Schmoderator Fluorescent fluorite, England PlantAKiss's Avatar
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    I'm sorry...I just HAVE to:

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]I remind the members of the NASC that the Corny comment is made by a non member.
    LOL Rose, you are so corny! [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/smile_n_32.gif[/img]

    Injecting a little levity here. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/smile.gif[/img] I think we have made a point and I hope that anyone who is thinking "cronyism" thinks about whether or not they themselves offered to take a position or nominated someone for a position. Pretty much what you see is ALL we got. I'm not aware of anyone being turned down for anything.

    As we grow (no pun intended!), I'm sure we will have larger and larger pools from which to draw on help in all areas including the Board and Growers and Committees. For now...we have the few who are willing to put up with our learning the ins and out of this new experience. Stumble we surely will but we will get back up and keep going with renewed determination.

    OK...anyone else have suggestions or concerns?
    "Fox terriers are born with about four times as much original sin in them as other dogs." - Jerome K. Jerome

  5. #21
    Moderator Schmoderator Fluorescent fluorite, England PlantAKiss's Avatar
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    Sorry...one more thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]They communicate by PM or whatever and it's easy for those of us who are out of the loop to question what's really going on.
    Its true there is communication via PM/email on some issues. But we cannot zip our lips and ONLY discuss issues in public meetings which take place just once a month. We'd NEVER get things done. So during the time between meetings, Officers are taking care of any issues/assignments that came up during the meeting and communicating with the concerned parties. We will be having the Board minutes posted for all who missed the meeting to see.

    If anyone has any questions about what is going on at any given time, just post to this forum and we'll give an update.

    Personally I am working with Ozzy preparing documents for a plant rescue (hopefully). This includes a request letter and Permission to Collect and Liability Waiver forms, updating the NASC brochure, a photo ID card; all for presentation to a construction company in NC. Also working on membership forms and membership ID cards. And also I'm coordinating the seed collection for the Rhode Island ESCAPE conservation group.
    "Fox terriers are born with about four times as much original sin in them as other dogs." - Jerome K. Jerome

  6. #22
    herenorthere's Avatar
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    Hey, that quote of mine looks bad out of context. I said

    "What can look like a crony system in NASC isn't; it's really a small number of highly motivated people trying to get things done. They communicate by PM or whatever and it's easy for those of us who are out of the loop to question what's really going on. Even to suspect a crony system."

    The point is that those who are giving lots of time and energy to NASC are working together to get things done, but that it can leave some people suspecting a crony system. After having gone the suspicious outsider route once myself, I think it's best to just chill out and ask how to help.

    Communication via computer loses nuance, so constructive criticism can look like an accusation and a firm rebuttal easily becomes a personal attack. Which, of course, is why it's much better to have a lot of the real work being done out of the public eye at this time. If it actually is an ivory tower that you insiders are building, us outsiders can storm it later.
    Bruce in CT

    Madness is something rare in individuals but in groups, parties, peoples, ages it is the rule. Friedrich Nietzsche

  7. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (herenorthere @ Nov. 21 2005,11:43)]If it actually is an ivory tower that you insiders are building, us outsiders can storm it later.
    I think I'll quote you out of context again just for the fun of it!! Can I help build that battery ram??
    My chicken legs taste like chicken--only less meaty.

  8. #24
    herenorthere's Avatar
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    Sure. It's much more exhilarating to attack the finished tower than to just kick around loose ivory and scaffolding during construction.
    Bruce in CT

    Madness is something rare in individuals but in groups, parties, peoples, ages it is the rule. Friedrich Nietzsche

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