I'll do what I can.
I'll do what I can.
In addition to a U.S. National Collection of plants, an effort should be made to assure that seed is stored at an established Seed Bank. In that way, germ plasm can be conserved. See, for example,
I would REALLY like to see the ICPS Conservation Chairman weigh in on this thread. Whatever is done should be a part of or sanctioned by ICPS.
The idea of a (Inter)National Sarracenia Collection sounds like a lofty project. The number of plants this involves is likely in the thousands, if not tens of thousands. For a site with a population of less than a hundred plants, three or four plants collected from the site might adequately represent the population's genetic make-up. What about a site with thousands of plants, like the well-known Sumatra red-tube flava site? Would 50 plants collected from such a site be adequate? Please don't think that I'm suggesting we collect plants from the Sumatra site. When you multiply the number of sites, as small as some of them may be, this adds up to a lot of plants. Does a facility exist that could maintain such a collection? As mentioned, this could only be acheived with numerous locations housing the collection and maintaining a seed bank.
Phil Sheridan of Meadowview Biological Research Station already maintains a genetic bank of Virginia Sarracenia in the form of seeds and plants. Virginia truly is in the last stages of wild population Sarracenia existance. Just this year, the largest known population of flava in Virginia was sprayed with a herbicide. Not all of the plants were destroyed, except possibly the Drosera brevifolia population. Luckily, Phil has the material to repopulate the site.
Phil maintains a non-profit organization with similar goals to the Nature Conservancy and Atlanta Botanical Gardens. He not only maintains a genetic bank but, also actively preserves Sarracenia habitat. He is as informed about the status of wild populations of Sarracenia as anyone. I can't speak for him but, feel that he has plenty to offer any kind of organization with ideals of saving Sarracenia. He should be contacted.
Personally, I feel that habitat destruction needs to be curtailed. As well as we think we can grow these plants in a pot, there is no replacement for natural habitat. As this goal is idealistic, I support any attempt to keep a genetic bank. It's better than no action.
Thank you all for your int erest support and hard work. Since I can't possibly answer and address each of you in turn, let me inform as to what I am doing.
I have appointed several comissioners to deal with the early formulation of outr concept. In place are committees for Facts and Advisement: a fact finding and information gathering tool which I hope will soon brief me with a list of who's who in the Sarracenia world pertinent to contact and recruitment
Outreachh committee which is currently drafting a who, what, where, when and why prospective which will be included in out initial contact efforts to secure an assembely.
Working to set up a head count poll to assess the numbers of out constituancy.
Some current needs include the inception of a Public Relations committee which I hope will keep awareness up, and help keep the ball rolling, develop a plan of calling public awareness to this project when the time is ripe. If you have expertise in this area please contact me.
I hope soon to generate a web site.
I am assigning interested parties to various committee's where skills and needs meet.
Please understand that this concept is not mine. I am not the Author, and am only acting as pro-tem president. Once we have an assembely, the first o rder of business will be to elect officers to replace the pro tem voluenteer's, at which point I fully intend to step down from this office.
There are some good thoughts being put into words, many ideas which will need to be reviewed and discussed in committee, and presented for eventual review.
Right now, all I am concerned with is a show of hands and the formation of an assembely.
I will do my best to contact each pair of willing hands to delegate responsibility.
A few brief comments to some statements:
Outreach will be involved with soliciting the cooperation and support of many diverse elements of CP Society. That this project is possible has already been demonstrated by Mike King.
The main thrust of the Collection as I see it will not be so much to solicit material from individuals, unless it is accompanied with meticulous collection data and then only after expert review. Rather, it should be a focus of the Collection to reproduce and distribute rare material into the general growing society from certain sources.
This will involve sensitive field collection. Although I too opt for land preservation, it is plainly evident that this will not in and of itself be successful. Extropolating from the last 50 years to the next 50 years paints a dismal and fatal picture for these plants. My feeling is that this material needs to be banked, and soon.
This is a sensitive issue, and I do not know how the ICPS would embrace the idea. This will be part of out outreach efforts, along with contacting the various nurseries involved with Sarracenia sale, herbariums, and conservancy groups.
All will be given opportunity to stand up and be counted.
Decades of study, and reservations regarding the ethics of field collection have not secured these plants. I think the time we can afford to wait for a bright tomorrow is done.
Seeking to obtain and maintain exclusivity with rare forms of Sarracenia in private and commercial stewardship for reasons of ego and potential profit need to give way to a more sound ethic if we are to save these plants. You can't reserve what you wish to preserve. Not any more. We also do not need a score of ardent collectors bent on doing the right thing going out and pulling up every different looking Sarracenia in the name of conservation!
These issues will be resolved in congress, and not by individual decisions.
Finally I ask that no one refer to this effort in any way *my* project. I will cordinate and direct your willingness, but only as a pro-tem officer. Credit for this concept goes to Bugweed and Brooks. I am a Sarracenia novice, and very much require each and everyone's assistance and backing to get the ball rolling.
What we need now are for some members of CP Society with prestige to stand up and be counted. Without such intervention this project will peter out in apathy, and to do this we need to present a serious, intelligent and above all possible prospective to potential sources of this type of support.
So, carry on! If I have made a request of you for specific information, please apply yourself to the work. A coordinated effort like this requires many hands completing what might seem to be minor tasks, but each part depends on all the others. If you can't find the time to act as requested, I ask that you tell me so up front, so duties may be reassigned. I am acting under the assumption that all will be willing to do the work, and if it proves to be impossible, you must let me know. If I have not yet contacted you, be patient. You will soon receive your induction notice.
Please continue to raise awareness, and ask interested parties to come to this thread and be counted.
Our Motto is:
"There is no time for you to be busy". If we are to be in time to save our plants, we *must* make that time!
"Grow More, Share More"
Finally, I've been trying to think of a way of getting something like this started for a while now, but I'm not nearly experienced enough to have much influence alone in the comunity. *I am proticularly concerned about the S. Purpurea of MI because we have an incredably diverse range of phenotypes living hear. *And as the Northern Varient, few made there way into cultivation before feild collection was compleatly banned.
I was plaining on prosueing permission to collect from a privet bog near by with the hopes of adding one new gene set to the pool that has proper identification and collection data, but if we are able to get this going, it would be much easier to get permission and I would feel better sending some plants and or seeds too a central location for intence propigation.
If we are able to do this onetime collection to help preserve the biodiversity of these plants, I will be more then happy to dedicate my time and skills to both careing for a portion of the collection if needed, and to going into the feild to gather scientific data on plants of each population and if asked, collect these plants to send to the propigators. *I am very close to many local bogs, inclueding a privetly owned bog that is the only one of it's kind (based on species living together) left. *If we can start getting promission to collect from publicly owned bogs the number of unque sites in the area seem almost endless, although each is very small, extrodenarly hard to reach and dwindeling.
I also know of several locations that the purples onced thrived in that some how have moved off the general radar. *With such a large effort in place, it would be much easier for me to contact the current owners of the land in these locations as I would have a legidiment reason for wanting to wander through there back 40 other then to just look at plants while possibly killing myself in the bog, lol.
So yah! *I'm all for it. *AYE! *and whatnot. *Lets get a representive for these little guys to safety!
There is no item greater in value than life, for without life value would cease to exist.
My Grow List
I'll help any way I can too. Too bad I'm no longer in Maine, surrounded by a wealth of bogs full of S. purpureas, but at least I can grow the their taller cousins here in CT. Or do whatever else would help. Bruce
Bruce in CT
Madness is something rare in individuals — but in groups, parties, peoples, ages it is the rule. Friedrich Nietzsche
A few thoughts.
Habitat preservation is important!!!
I think we need to get the ICPS to weigh in on this subject.
Seed collection should be the focus not plant collection. Ethical guidelines must be established and adhered to. The established scientific comunity or some such group should be the collectors of the seed for distribution to growers. We can't have a bunch of people raiding bogs.
This is an excelent idea but must be implemented carefully and thoughtfully. Its a good thing Tamlin is heading this up.
I am glad to see this topic taking off.
Ether seed or a few plants. We shold not take so much that it might harm the populations from witch they are collected, seed or plants.
that makes no logic
Glenn and all, I have already talked to Carl Mazur on this plan months ago. He is writing a proposal for the ICPS Board for consideration. Carl Mazur as most know is the ICPS President. I am also trying to get him on to this Forum to see the positive reactions of all of you, the CP growers, to this idea. Stewardship is another form of Conservation, and every grower who really wants to do something to preserve the plants, and then fight for their habitats, is more than welcome to put in their thoughts. I have to talk to Don Schnell next, as he is a brilliant man with many good ideas, and I will talk to him. Keep thinking!!
45 yrs. growin\'
There are some problems with a seed based collection protocol that may or may not be transcended based on the fact that the plants introgress so easily. This will need to be discussed amongst those more familiar with the genetics regarding this genus.
And YES, certainly habitat preservation remains important, but this issue is beyond our current scope and is being addressed by more concerted conservancy action than we can hope to generate.
Some current questions that need decided answers asap will include:
Where will this collection be based (critical because applications for a non-profit organization need to be considered relative to the legalities of that State), who will do the collecting (and this needs to be done by those who are intimate with the populations and the impact this will have), who will do the cultivation and reproduction, where will funds come from.
Right now I am still looking for a listing of who's who in Sarracenia: without this list we cannot begin to assess the needs of our Outreach committee.
A similar list is needed of US commercial dealers involved with the sale of Sarracenia: if anyone wishes to begin this compilation, message me.
Another list is needed of possible funding sources for this sort of effort. If anyone has such a list or can generate it through research, this will ultimately be needed.
I am looking for someone to contact the various CP Societies, as well as send a personal appeal to our members in foreign countries. We want all the support we can muster. If you are willing to work on this project, message me.
Bugweed, see if you can corner Don into writing some formal declaration of support, and secure his permission to use such statements in public posts and publications. You must convince him to step out of retirement, and please set some flame under Carl regarding the ICPS proposal. The fact that Carl is ICPS President is of critical value.
I, too,would like very much to hear Barry's thoughts, pro or con on this subject.
I would also like to see the discussion broached on the various world cp forums and opened on the Listserve. The Listserve is sure to draw FLAME down on whomever broaches the topic, but sooner or later it needs to be done. Listserve members, keep an eye on the posts, and STAND UP and be counted if the topic gets "warm". Don't let the voiceferous few dominate the discussion - make your presence felt but please be polite.
Above all, maintain your enthusiasm and focus. This is a long hard road we are on and there are mountains we can't even see yet that must be climbed.
We need very much to draw in some serious support from the scientific community and I hope ICPS support, but I warn you, this is a HOT topic because it involves field collection. I think the issue of ethical collection has been adequately discussed and remains "grey". There is something to say on both sides of the equation, but my contention is that former "sit back and wait" attitudes are not working. Possible tools to assist in convincing the ICPS might be a petition letter signed by Society members in favor of this collection, which could be circulated amongst the various forums and CP socieites worldwide seeking support for this sort of conservancy.
By all means keep thinking, and please start doing as well.
"Grow More, Share More"