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Thread: Any construction sites

  1. #9

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    Kirk, let's dissect what you wrote-

    "if there are any constructions sites, where plants are in danger of getting destroyed I can rescue mos tof them and distribute them here".

    It would appear you had no intentions of keeping any plant material personally and it would also appear you had no intentions of removing plant material from any site other than that which you believed to be in eminent danger of destruction. Regardless of whether your heart was in the right place, there are tricks to the trade. I monitor rare plants. Before I was allowed to do so, I had to attend two whole day training sessions and then I had to be "monitored" by seasoned veterans. I am still monitored by seasoned veterans and you know something, I not only enjoy the company but the opportunity for growth by being able to discuss the sites with a person who has forgotten more than I will ever know. I also go on plant rescues. They are organized by somebody else so all I do is show up. This means that somebody already procured written permission to be at the site. We always work in small groups to be able to bear witness. We also photograph the area before we begin to work and then we photograph it upon completion. There are many ins and outs to plant rescue and working alongside a seasoned veteran for a few years is the best experience imaginable. All said and done, even those who wish to view rareand/or desirable plants may damage their habitat by trampling. In order to preserve our rarest and most desirable species of carnivorous plants and their habitats, we need to start out slow and work with those who have forgotten more than people such as you and me know. You know something Kirk, I have yet to visit any site by myself whether it be endangered and threatened native plants or CPs. I am pushing 50 years of age.

    Perhaps it would be best if you stated where you will be vacationing and ask if anyone is working on any projects in that area. Then maybe you could volunteer your "sweat labor". If you are visiting the Midwest, let me know as I surely would love to have you visit the school where I volunteer. The Junior High kids there would love getting a chance to bombard you with questions.

    "If any of you are aware of sights that are out of reach for anyone I would g;adly save them and distribute them here for s+h 3.85"

    This was an incredibly kind offer. One problem is that in order to preserve our rarest and most desirable species of carnivorous plants and their habitats, it is paramount that the confidentiality of their locations is maintained unless an individual is actively involved "working" that site. This is nothing personal Kirk. I am a member of Plants Of Concern. I have knowledge of only those sites with which I am actively involved. If the truth be known, I could probably get access to information regarding other sites but I really have no need to know therefore I have never asked.

    "I am not sure if this is allowed or not"

    Well, I suppose you most unfortunately got your answer.

    "if a mod finds this inappropriate please notify me and close the thread"

    I am not a mod, just a member like you. I personally do not find what you originally wrote to be inappropriate as I doubt seriously if your intentions were to go field collecting to distribute plants to your fellow members here. I do find what you wrote to be poorly worded though but let he who is guilt free of poor wording cast the first stone.

    Now this statement does sort of concern me, "I guess if I see a stand of sarracenia about to be blown over by bulldozers I'll jsut leave them". It doesn't have to be this way Kirk. You'll have Internet access when you are vacationing. Please rethink that statement. Perhaps you could see fit to share any findings with 0zzy should you come across any. That's the way it works. There is a chain of command and he is the head of Conservancy for the NASC. I understand you are frustrated but please try to understand that most of the people here are die hard conservationists and they've all seen what a poached site looks like because somebody didn't exercise discretion when sharing site data. Whether the disclosure of a site was intentional or not, the loss of plants is always irreversible. It's nothing personal.

  2. #10

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    Kirk normally some will go through the blueprints (if written up) to see how much of the site will be disturbed. I know of a couple sites where only part of the bog was destroyed so only part had to be saved. Other sites are totalled but its hard to tell unless you talk with the head of construction or see the blueprints. A lot of research has to go into finding sites and makeing sure they can be saved. Since you will need permission. Some owners don't wnat you messing around. And I'm sure your parents don't want you arrested. There is also a proper procedure for removing plants. This is usually followed even if the person has not a real clue about what they are doing. There is also a proper procedure for distribution that must be attempted to followed. And if you follow all the procedures you would only end up with a few boxes to send out. You also must need to know who to send the boxes to first. Obviously people like Bugweed who has been in Cping for 43 years knows that he should popagate and distribute the palnts as widely as possible. Some newbe will probibly kill at least one adn not know how to propagate it nor will they distribute it as widely as possible. After years and years of Cping many of these guys and gals know what to do and how to do it which is vitally important. The Cp rescue at Crestview that happened last year or the year before resulted in the saving of 140 S. rubra ssp. gulfensis, 5 S. leucos, and some P. primulifolia and maybe a coupe other things (I don't remember exactly). Now out of those plants probibly 1 out of 10 dies because of pests, disease or just plain shock. no one could do anything about any of those because they just could not be avoided. So now we are down to around 125 plants which survived. I know people who got those plants and I know they are pollinating the flowers and waiting for the plants to grow enough to divide so that they can be distributed to the rest of the community. 125 plants is not a whole lot. I have been to the Crestview site a few months ago and in other areas of the same land hundreds possibly thousands of plants thrive. Yet we have no idea if the rest will be developed yet. If it is we probibly will not know about it. So only 125 plants out of a few hundred survived and are genetically distinct. If all 125 were sent to newbes do you think all 125 would have survived? No. They might have also been sent out wrong and so there would be no way second generation plants could be labelled 'Crestview, Fl'. I am proud to say that I for one will be donating all my seed from these plants to the ICPS seedbank as soon as they mature. I know others will also. This will allow the people who did not get the original plants to have some of their own labelled 'Crestview, Fl'. Now this story has a purpose. The purpose is to show that with out long hours of work on the rescuers part plants could have been mistakenly taken from teh part of Crestview that was not threatened. That would have obviously been pouching but since such research and effort went into this our Carnivorus Plant Community can proudly say we saw a need and did something about it. Instead of shrinking back and saying yeah someone poached. Without these well thoughtout, organized rescues how do you think so many location plants were offered on the NASC auctions. Without the rules and regulations probibly very few of those plants would be avalible.

    Sorry for the long post everyone

  3. #11

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    Laura and Tre, very well thought out posts, and I do rethink my post before, I would just like the people to know, I invited several other cp'ers as well that sadly wouldn't have been able to come, Tre if you are planning on being in the panhandle this July please feel free to come with me
    Join the CCPS, you wont regret it: http://s4.invisionfree.com/CCPS

  4. #12

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    Sorry I will not be there. Possibly in California or France. If in California I will try to tiem myself for a BACPS meeting.

  5. #13
    SirKristoff is a poopiehead Ozzy's Avatar
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    Kirk, I have been watching your posts about this trip very carefully. I have even discussed it with other members. We all agree that at this time it's best to keep any sites to ourselves. It's nothing personal. I believe that you should earn respect and trust from more advanced cp'ers before you are given any location data. You have plenty of time to earn your way in. I have been around this hobby for awhile, I have done a lot of work to save cp's and cp sites. Even with all of that there are people that won't tell me cp sites that they know about. I'm not hurt by that, it just makes me feel that they are doing their part to keep the sites safe. If they don't trust me to show me the sites, then I will continue to work hard to earn their trust. One day I'll have their trust.
    There are cp sites that I have found and as far as I know I'm the only person that knows where they are. I have spent hours looking for sites on my own, and I have some wonderful finds. A lot of time and labor when into finding them. I enjoy going back to them and seeing them and knowing that they are safe. I know that anytime I want to see them I can. I would be devistated if I went there on day and found a bunch of holes where plants use to be. Keeping these plants to myself is not selfish. I would love to show them to somebody that I trust.
    One thing you said really worries me.
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]I invited several other cp'ers as well that sadly wouldn't have been able to come
    This would be another reason whyI wouldn't give you any sites that I know. I don't know who you would show the sites to. Even if I completely trusted you, I still can't trust the people that you take with you.
    If you want to change your trip to NC, I will be happy to give you some very nice sites to visit. If I am there when you get there I'll even show you around.

  6. #14

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    sounds good ozz, I am able to respect that, I only invited cp'ers who have already been in a bog, I invited Brooks, and Bugweed, we all know they would never poach if their lives depended on it, I dont know if I'll be in NC, but if I find any nice sites in florida that are unknown, I guess I would want to only give the data to cp'ers I really trusted
    Join the CCPS, you wont regret it: http://s4.invisionfree.com/CCPS

  7. #15

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    Well 0zzy, if Brooks and Bugweed are two of his picks... Kirk's got impeccable taste in CPers now doesn't he! Guess you and I are ummm, chopped liver!

  8. #16
    SirKristoff is a poopiehead Ozzy's Avatar
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    Yeah, Nobody ever picks me to go. I guess nobody likes me.

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