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Thread: Looking for some hybrid Experts ...

  1. #17
    -=Joel=-'s Avatar
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    Thank you bug catcher ... makes the decisions even harder lol.

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    If you're looking for new, cool-looking plants, I would avoid the simple crosses, such as flava x leucophylla. While they look nice, there's already a bunch out there and it would be easier to just trade for them rather than raising them from seed. The complex the plants you cross, the more variety you'll get in the offspring. You know what you're gonna get with a leuco x flava cross. If you crossed, for example, hummers hammerhead with ladies in waiting, you could get quite the x-section of plants. Some will probably look a lot like psittacina, some will look rubra-esque, with all points in between. Those in between plants are generally the most interesting, in my opinion. But, since it's your first go at it, do what you want to do, since you never really know what you'll get for sure. Here's a pic of 3 siblings from my first ever crosses. it was a leuco x oreo crossed with an unknown leuco hybrid, probably leuco x alata:


    This is another of my first crosses, a nice bizarre looking one. psitt x (purp x minor) crossed with the same unknown leuco hybrid in the previous pic:


    i'm hoping they all survived the winter, since i've lost several plants to some kind of rot.

  3. #19
    -=Joel=-'s Avatar
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    I will be doing one or two complex mixes however I would rather be able to control, to some extent, the outcome.

    I was thinking of starting me own line up of simple hybrids and then breed from them. This would make my hybrids in the future totally unique as no one will have my exllens, moorei etc etc

    I think this would be a better route for the future however one or two complex crosses a year cant hurt

    Joel

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    Quote Originally Posted by -=Joel=- View Post
    I was thinking of starting me own line up of simple hybrids and then breed from them. This would make my hybrids in the future totally unique as no one will have my exllens, moorei etc etc
    Joel
    Joel, you are right on the money. Although there are multitudes of the same primary crosses out there, creating your own will produce offspring that may be superior to what we all see on a day to day basis. If you are serious about investing your time, effort, and financial resources in a Sarracenia breeding program it would be to your best advantage to use only the finest clonal examples of the species you wish to work with. Believe me...I know. I've been doing this for many, many years. But I started from scratch. My best species clones are the result of multiple selfing and sibling crosses over more than a decade. You may not want to invest this much time into your project but it certainly does reap results, the best results.

    For instance..for breeding purposes I was not overly pleased with the RTF clones I grew in the collection. So I began making selfing and sibling crosses between them. Out of all the seedlings produced I picked one to keep as a stud breeder. It is a giant among RTF with deep soild red tubes and dark red hoods nearly 7 inches wide.

    I then crossed this with S. leucophylla 'Titan' making another S. moorei. The results, as expected, made people stop in their tracks; even other Sarr breeders. When the best of this seed batch flowered I began using IT, (yes only 1), for futher breeding. I crossed it with S.'Judith Hindle', S. oreophila, etc and well...Sarracenia hybrid heaven! The likes of which very few have ever seen. I've also made these exact same crosses using the S. moorei "Big Red" (which originated from me and will be registered soon under the name S.'Royal Ruby') and from these sprouted S. 'Reptilian Rose'; a cross with S. oreophila Sand Mt form. The pitchers are gigantic with the pattern of a lizard's skin in shades of deep rose and pink and smell like old English roses...the real rose fragrance. This cultivar will also be registered this year as well.

    So please don't ever dismiss the great potential of simple primary crosses. The only way to get what you're looking for is to keep breeding with only the very best stock, as Trent mentioned. This applies to making crosses with hybrids as well. Remember that old computer cliche...garbage in..garbage out. It helps to have an artistic eye and have a game plan for what you want the outcome to be. There are sooooo many hybrids out there, registered and unregistered, that look like the breeder didn't put any thought into the results.

    Currently I am growing out approx. 600 S. moorei seedlings that were made using 4 of my best S. leucophylla, (including a near pure white veinless form) and the 5 best S. flava in the collection. At one year old many of them are close to 12 inches tall and the colors and patterns are breath taking...even at this early stage.

    You may not have the space to grow out so many plants but neither do I. Most all of them are grown in large community pots or trays. When the plants begin their 3rd growing season I make my selections and send the rest of them to my other shared nursery. I can usually tell at this stage which are my favorites. I try to keep no more than 3 or 4 plants from each cross...although I did end up keeping a dozen pure red S. moorei from a previous cross. My bad!

    This year is the season for S. oreophila crosses. It is a staple in hybridization projects if you want superior growth, color and patterns. BTW...don't forget about using S.'Dana's Delight' as a breeder too. When crossed with really nice forms of S. flava you will get S. moorei type seedlings in glowing shades of reds, purples and fuschia. It is also excellent crossed with S. oreophila. Trust me!

    Phil

  5. #21
    -=Joel=-'s Avatar
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    Phil that is an excellent post and one that certainly helps. Im lucky in that I have time, I hope, on my side being only 19. I also have a decent amount of space to grow on seedlings.

    Growing plants is rewarding enough, but having a goal to achieve makes it even more exciting in my opinion. It would be great to have a plant that truly has unique characteristics.

    I know what you mean about some people not putting much thought into crossing there plants. Some hybrids that pop up are terrible and wonder why they were not binned. I plan to be hard and hopefully only keep 5 - 10 plants from any one cross to flowering size. I have been told some plants can time to develop hidden traits. Would you agree with this ?

    Once you have found you 'Keeper' flava, leuco etc etc, do you then get rid of your original stock to make room for more plants in the future ? Do they still have a use ?

    I still think / hope I will keep things on the simpler side. I feel its better to produce quality plants rather than cross everything and anything together hoping I will get lucky.

    Speak soon & feel free to post any more helpful info, im sure its not just me benefiting from this great info.

    Joel

  6. #22
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    Phil is a very patient man to make and select his own crosses. I'd never cut it in that area of cultivation lol.

    I'd never be able to reject anything either lol. They are all pretty to me, well most of them at least

  7. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by -=Joel=- View Post
    Phil that is an excellent post and one that certainly helps.
    Thank you. I'm happy to be of assistance.
    Quote Originally Posted by -=Joel= View Post
    Im lucky in that I have time, I hope, on my side being only 19. I also have a decent amount of space to grow on seedlings.
    You are indeed very fortunate to have time and space on your side Joel. Good for you!
    Quote Originally Posted by -=Joel= View Post
    Growing plants is rewarding enough, but having a goal to achieve makes it even more exciting in my opinion. It would be great to have a plant that truly has unique characteristics.
    I couldn't have said it better myself. You will definitely get some good results with the plants you have listed.

    Quote Originally Posted by -=Joel= View Post
    I know what you mean about some people not putting much thought into crossing there plants. Some hybrids that pop up are terrible and wonder why they were not binned.
    I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
    Quote Originally Posted by -=Joel= View Post
    I have been told some plants can time to develop hidden traits. Would you agree with this ?
    Yes,completely. Anything involving S. flava, S. leuco. or S' oreophila needs several good years of hard growing to reach full potential.
    Quote Originally Posted by -=Joel= View Post
    Once you have found you 'Keeper' flava, leuco etc etc, do you then get rid of your original stock to make room for more plants in the future ? Do they still have a use ?
    Due to sentimental reasons, I try to keep at least one division of all breeding stock. It also helps when lecturing as you can show your audience what the babies look like when using good parents and then what the babies from the same type of cross look like using superior parents.

    Quote Originally Posted by -=Joel= View Post
    I feel its better to produce quality plants rather than cross everything and anything together hoping I will get lucky.
    Spoken like a true professional! I just wish other breeders felt this way.

    Quote Originally Posted by -=Joel= View Post
    Speak soon & feel free to post any more helpful info, im sure its not just me benefiting from this great info.
    Thanks for the kind words Joel. I'll do my best to help when I can. This is a subject I am very passionate about.

    Phil

  8. #24
    Moderator Alexis's Avatar
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    I know what you mean about some people not putting much thought into crossing there plants. Some hybrids that pop up are terrible and wonder why they were not binned. I plan to be hard and hopefully only keep 5 - 10 plants from any one cross to flowering size. I have been told some plants can time to develop hidden traits. Would you agree with this ?
    LOL. I find it hard to bin any plants personally! Good luck with your seedlings - I usually manage to get 1-5 plants to adulthood from sowing 30-40 seeds. Unfortunately fungus always takes a large proportion for me, but as compensation some crosses do manage to get to adulthood very quickly

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