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Thread: Darlingtonia x Sarracenia?

  1. #1
    Kung Fu Fighting! NeciFiX's Avatar
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    Darlingtonia x Sarracenia?

    These two are obviously closely related (even in the same family!) and S. psittacina is probably (by physical traits) one of the more closely related to Darlingtonia, and even their flowers are relatively the same, could a cross be done between the two?

    Thanks!

    ~NeciFiX
    - NeciFiX

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    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    No. As of yet the only intergeneric cross has been made with Drosera and Dionaea and the seedings died quickly after germination.

    You can always try if you want. You might get lucky and get a weak abomination lmao. Don't count on it, though. Not without genetic engineering.

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    Doing it wrong until I do it right. xvart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustLikeAPill View Post
    As of yet the only intergeneric cross has been made with Drosera and Dionaea and the seedings died quickly after germination.
    Woah. I never heard this. You got a link?

    xvart.
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    Kung Fu Fighting! NeciFiX's Avatar
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    Drosera and Dionaea don't APPEAR as related as Sarracenia and Darlingtonia. S. psittacina (again, physical assumption) APPEARS to be more closely related to Darlingtonia than most since they employ the exact same trapping mechanism (if it weren't for the size, some colouration aspects, the fangs, and the differences in the flowers I couldn't tell the difference!). They are in the same family, too. I don't have a mature S. psittacina or Darlingtonia or any other Sarracenia since Cooks plants are usually immature, however, I will go for it! I probably will get a weak hybrid that dies in a week or two, but it's worth a try! Now, just to pull my Darlingtonia and S. psittacina inside when they flower in a year or two so those bumblebees (I was blessed to see TWO of them, or the same one just on different days), cute little furry black and yellow bumblebees pollinating the nice looking (they look nicer than Utric flowers, these dumb weeds that grow here, kind of like Orchids, that's why I don't need pretty flowers! I got them in my backyard!) purple flowers running rampant like a weed. Aw. And this was happening when I was potting a S. leucophylla x (flava x leucophylla).
    - NeciFiX

  5. #5
    白人看不懂 Drosera36's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeciFiX View Post
    Drosera and Dionaea don't APPEAR as related as Sarracenia and Darlingtonia. S. psittacina (again, physical assumption) APPEARS to be more closely related to Darlingtonia than most since they employ the exact same trapping mechanism (if it weren't for the size, some colouration aspects, the fangs, and the differences in the flowers I couldn't tell the difference!).
    You shouldn't assume that just because they look the same, they are more related. Some chameleons have three horns on their head with a crest, just like a Triceratops. Does that mean that they are closely related? No. Similarities pop up in evolution all the time.

    -Ben
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    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    Here is a thread I made when I was 13, 4 years ago. Ahh such memories. Look at my poor capitalization skills. I was such a newb back then. Look at my enthusiasm. Alas, now I only have the melodramatic emo impressions of a angstful teenager scorned. Woe upon me.

    Man these antihistamines are doin' somethin' crazy to me, foo.

    http://terraforums.com/forums/showth...t=intergeneric

    For those of you who are lazy, here is something from the listerve by Ivan Snyder 7 years ago.



    Archive-Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 08:59:14 -0800
    Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 08:58:46 -0700 (PDT)
    Message-ID: <20000812.085503.-11307.3.bioexp@juno.com>
    Reply-To: cp@opus.labs.agilent.com
    Sender: cp@opus.labs.agilent.com
    From: Ivan Snyder
    To: Multiple recipients of list
    Subject: re: Drosera regia - Dionaea Relation


    >Hey listserver,Does anyone know the chromosome count
    >on D.regia and D.muscipula.I think they are
    >related.The flowers and seed are very similar.In
    >D.muscipula the pollen is ready before the plant is
    >receptive.The same is true in D.regia.Sometimes I even
    >get the seed mixed up.Pretty soon I will make the
    >cross.Petiolaris Sean

    Jan:
    >They definietly are. Besides the morphological similarities, genetic
    >alignments place _D. regia_ (and not _D. falconeri_ or any other
    >Lasiocephala; Hi Ivan, I do not buy your theory - but I doubt you
    >believed I would, anyway&#33 at the very base of the genus _Drosera_,
    >quite close to _Dionaea_.

    Hi all, Ivan here,
    This is a subject I find especially interesting. In the 1985 CPN December
    issue I wrote the article 'Evolution of the Venus' Flytrap'. In the
    article I detailed the evolutionary steps from sundew to VFT. At the
    time, Drosera falconeri had recently been discovered. When I submitted
    the article, Joseph Mazrimas wrote me that he felt that D. falconeri
    might be an ancestor of VFT. After studying the plant myself, I do not
    believe this is true. Still, the similarity in my hypothetical drawing in
    the article, as Mr. Mazrimas suguested, is astonishing. This is why I say
    that D. falconeri is representative of a missing link, though not
    actually the genuine article.

    After much study I feel that D. regia is the most closely related sundew
    to VFT. In addition to the shared characteristics mentioned by Sean and
    Jan here are the pollen. D. regia pollen is unlike any other sundew and
    most like that of VFT. The chromosome counts are especially telling (if
    correct). In biology there is a general rule in respect to archaic
    species which have developed into more moderns and differing by one pair
    of chromosomes, such as this case, VFT = 32, D. regia = 34. The older
    species will actually have the higher count. This is because it is more
    simple to lose a pair rather than gain one. This rule holds true with the
    aboriginal horse having one pair of chromosomes more than the
    domesticated horse. Also consider the chimpanzee has one pair more than
    we Humans. Incedently, the wild horse ancestor and domestic horse may
    interbreed and often produce fertile offspring, despite the chromosome
    difference.

    I have tried cross pollinations of many different sundews with VFT. All
    will be surprised to hear that some did cross, though the hybrids did not
    survive long. I have not had flowering of D. regia and VFT simultaneously
    yet. I feel that maybe these two might be most compatible.

  7. #7
    Kung Fu Fighting! NeciFiX's Avatar
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    Drosera36: I put "by physically" in parentheses because I was just adding that so my theory would sound better instead if I put S. something or something there (and that sentence is flawed.) But, I know, I was probably wrong anyways.

    JustLikeAPill: I hate you.

    Quote Originally Posted by JustLikeAPill View Post
    Here is a thread I made when I was 13, 4 years ago. Ahh such memories. Look at my poor capitalization skills. I was such a newb back then. Look at my enthusiasm. Alas, now I only have the melodramatic emo impressions of a angstful teenager scorned. Woe upon me.

    Man these antihistamines are doin' somethin' crazy to me, foo.

    http://terraforums.com/forums/showth...t=intergeneric

    For those of you who are lazy, here is something from the listerve by Ivan Snyder 7 years ago.



    Archive-Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 08:59:14 -0800
    Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 08:58:46 -0700 (PDT)
    Message-ID: <20000812.085503.-11307.3.bioexp@juno.com>
    Reply-To: cp@opus.labs.agilent.com
    Sender: cp@opus.labs.agilent.com
    From: Ivan Snyder
    To: Multiple recipients of list
    Subject: re: Drosera regia - Dionaea Relation


    >Hey listserver,Does anyone know the chromosome count
    >on D.regia and D.muscipula.I think they are
    >related.The flowers and seed are very similar.In
    >D.muscipula the pollen is ready before the plant is
    >receptive.The same is true in D.regia.Sometimes I even
    >get the seed mixed up.Pretty soon I will make the
    >cross.Petiolaris Sean

    Jan:
    >They definietly are. Besides the morphological similarities, genetic
    >alignments place _D. regia_ (and not _D. falconeri_ or any other
    >Lasiocephala; Hi Ivan, I do not buy your theory - but I doubt you
    >believed I would, anyway&#33 at the very base of the genus _Drosera_,
    >quite close to _Dionaea_.

    Hi all, Ivan here,
    This is a subject I find especially interesting. In the 1985 CPN December
    issue I wrote the article 'Evolution of the Venus' Flytrap'. In the
    article I detailed the evolutionary steps from sundew to VFT. At the
    time, Drosera falconeri had recently been discovered. When I submitted
    the article, Joseph Mazrimas wrote me that he felt that D. falconeri
    might be an ancestor of VFT. After studying the plant myself, I do not
    believe this is true. Still, the similarity in my hypothetical drawing in
    the article, as Mr. Mazrimas suguested, is astonishing. This is why I say
    that D. falconeri is representative of a missing link, though not
    actually the genuine article.

    After much study I feel that D. regia is the most closely related sundew
    to VFT. In addition to the shared characteristics mentioned by Sean and
    Jan here are the pollen. D. regia pollen is unlike any other sundew and
    most like that of VFT. The chromosome counts are especially telling (if
    correct). In biology there is a general rule in respect to archaic
    species which have developed into more moderns and differing by one pair
    of chromosomes, such as this case, VFT = 32, D. regia = 34. The older
    species will actually have the higher count. This is because it is more
    simple to lose a pair rather than gain one. This rule holds true with the
    aboriginal horse having one pair of chromosomes more than the
    domesticated horse. Also consider the chimpanzee has one pair more than
    we Humans. Incedently, the wild horse ancestor and domestic horse may
    interbreed and often produce fertile offspring, despite the chromosome
    difference.

    I have tried cross pollinations of many different sundews with VFT. All
    will be surprised to hear that some did cross, though the hybrids did not
    survive long. I have not had flowering of D. regia and VFT simultaneously
    yet. I feel that maybe these two might be most compatible.
    - NeciFiX

  8. #8
    Hello, I must be going... Not a Number's Avatar
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    In the March 2007 issue of the Carnivorous Plant Newsletter (vol. 36< no. 1) there is a article "Droseraceae Gland and Germination Patterns Revisted: Support for Recent Molecular Phylogenetic Studies" reviews many of the studies on the relationship of the genera and species in the family Droseraceae. The family includes Dionaea, Drosera and Aldrovanda.

    Strange how some people accept the molecular studies that show the relationships in the family Drosceraceae but not the molecular studies that indicate Sarracenia rubra is a different species from S. purpurea ssp purpurea and ssp venosa.
    Grand Hotel... always the same. People come, people go. Nothing ever happens.

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