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Thread: S. oreophila

  1. #17
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    $6 is a bit much to tack on for shipping. I can't see how one plant that size would change the price of shipping if it was bare root.

    The dude offering these plants is on the up and up. He's got a fabulous reputation, no one is questioning that. It's just... weird.

  2. #18
    Doing it wrong until I do it right. xvart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrWurm View Post
    I don't think so. They're not taking profit from the plant. I'm sending them money for shipping me a box. What they put inside is simply extra.
    It's all semantics. If you are concerned enough about the rules that you are making justifications (excuses) like you are paying for a box and whatever is inside you didn't know about then you really, really shouldn't be posting about it on a public forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrWurm View Post
    I definitely don't feel like they're doing anything wrong here. They're chucking away valuable plants just so people like me can be giddy. Pretty nice of them.

    Again, it doesn't matter about how you feel. You should heed Barry Rice's advice when, as you posted, he says:
    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Rice
    However, I could also argue that even gifts are prohibited by E.S.A. F.17.61(b), but I do not think this is the case.
    and

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Rice
    --Qualifier #2: I suppose you could ask your interstate partner to send you money to cover postage, packing, etc. However, I would not do this if I were you. I would advise that you simply eat the postage charges and stay clear of breaking the law.
    I'm pretty sure that whatever argument Barry Rice could create is much more concrete and well thought out than any of the "justifications" posted here.

    xvart.
    Last edited by xvart; 12-14-2007 at 08:36 PM.
    "The tragedy of life is not that every man loses; but that he almost wins."

    "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

  3. #19
    Californian in DC DrWurm's Avatar
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    Well, Xvart, according to the owners of the site, what they're doing is legal. They're not trying to bend the law. They made sure that it would be alright with US fish and wildlife before they did it. So that, as they say, is that.

    Really, everyone who doesn't have this species should be jumping on the opportunity to own it at a nice cheap price instead of debating the legality of a generous offer.

    Tis a time for celebration!

  4. #20
    Doing it wrong until I do it right. xvart's Avatar
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    First of all, let me say that I am in no way casting judgment on anyone. My only point was, there are loads of posts and people that have said otherwise; and, in no way am I an expert on CITES and import/export/shipping laws. In my line of work I hear all sorts of justifications for various "rule bending" incidents. I'm just saying that make sure you are comfortable with your individual justifications and be ready to take responsibility if you were provided "poor" information. I applaud you for looking deeper into the issue for contacting the company, even if it was (as it appears) after the fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrWurm View Post
    They're not trying to bend the law.
    And you know this because they told you so? Maybe they are operating under their own justifications and interpretations. Who knows. It's tough to rely on good intentions.

    My original intention was not to start a debate; my ultimate goal was to get people to think ahead and to think more deeply surrounding areas of obvious concern and contradictory experience. It certainly is easier to justify an action after it's already occurred.

    xvart.
    "The tragedy of life is not that every man loses; but that he almost wins."

    "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

  5. #21
    Californian in DC DrWurm's Avatar
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    I didn't come here to start a legal debate, I came to talk about my awesome new plant.

    The nursery these plants came from is very reputable and well known, so I highly doubt that lying to his customer's faces would be very lucrative. Obviously he wouldn't risk jail time to give away plants, so he must be confident in his legal standing, as I was when I made the order.

    It's after the fact because I hadn't really planned on a legal debate about it.... Call me a sheep, but I tend to trust people.

  6. #22
    D_muscipula's Avatar
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    Oh well I'm getting one from the same place he is and I live in the same state at this nursery so if they make any profit it will be legal
    view my growlist
    http://grwlist.notlong.com

  7. #23
    RL7836's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrWurm View Post
    It's after the fact because I hadn't really planned on a legal debate about it.... Call me a sheep, but I tend to trust people.
    Several years ago, the government fined an individual $2500 for accepting plants (or seeds) from someone that he 'trusted'. While I do not recall the details, he shared this info on the CP listserver twice over the years and possibly also on this forum.

    My takeaway has been to err on the side of caution & knowledge as ignorance of the rules does not change the consequences.

    There have been instances of people from other countries selling Neps to people in the states who have stated that everything was legal & not to worry. Similar stories with seed sellers from other countries. Had you trusted these individual's assessment of US laws and gotten caught, your fines would likely have been similarly onerous as the one mentioned above ....

    While I do not have the knowledge to judge this particular set of circumstances, there are other opportunities for these plants where the legality of the situation is not remotely debatable. One of these is seed available currently from the ICPS seedbank...
    All the best,
    Ron
    You must do the thing you think you cannot do. --- Eleanor Roosevelt

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  8. #24
    Californian in DC DrWurm's Avatar
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    okay, this is getting on my nerves.
    IT IS LEGAL.
    Period. End of story. No longer debatable due to facts. It'd be nice if the responses of the nursery owners weren't blatantly overlooked or mistrusted.

    This is like walking into a best buy and worrying if a TV is stolen. Of course you expect the sale to be legal, it's best buy, not a pawn shop.

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