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New to CP, new to forum, and in need of sarr advice

So I've been growing some carnivores in a terrarium for some time now, and they look pretty great (in my eyes at least; they're pitiful compared to some of the beautiful plants I've seen on here!) I found I really have a thing for Sarracenias, and I would like to grow some more, but I want to to grow them outdoors. However, I think my region has a few problems for this. Could you offer an opinion?

1) Heat: Generally, it stays around 80-90 degrees F around here, but when summer hits, we get heat waves that last weeks and end up putting us well over the hundreds. I don't think my pitchers would be able to survive that. But I don't know. Any advice?

2) Humidity: I know everyone says not to worry about humidity as much I do, but it's bone dry around here; It's quite literally a desert. I mean, I often check the humidity to see it is 0% on the hottest days. Would a well moistened potting medium and a tray of sphagnum around the pot be enough? I don't know, and that's why I'm here.

I would really appreciate any tips.
 
You may wish to fill out your profile so we can see where in you're located.

Sarracenia like to have dormancy and you're not going to have it naturally from what you've stated. You may have to resort to bringing your sarras indoors where presumably it's cooler and darker and eventually in your fridge for about 3 months out of the year.
 
Ah, my bad, I was far ahead of myself. I'm in Reno, Nevada, and I'm not worried about dormancy here, it might even be too cold. I'm going to go check my actual zoning.

EDIT: Yup, looks like I'm in zone 6, so they will probably be going into the garage anyway.
 
So your winters are cold, which is good. As for keeping them outside.... You may have to put some shade cloth outside to protect them from the intense sun. Not sure what it should be, but perhaps one of the SoCal people might be able to offer tips on how they keep theirs.
 
I was thinking perhaps something like that, I'll see if anybody else has any ideas though. Thanks for the help =]
 
Welcome to the forum!
There are many pointers to such a broad a question but the good part is that it CAN be done. There are several growers from Utah on here so you may be able to pick up a couple pointers from threads and fellow growers. Just go digging through some of the threads in the Sarr and bog categories and you'll turn up lost of wonderful info!

If you're feeling lucky check out the trading post; i currently am doing a giveaway for a Sarracenia rhizome AND a how to grow CPs DVD. The DVD actually covers how to grow them in desert conditions. Just find the thread titled Sarracenia giveaway in the trading post and follow the post!
The only thing I can recommend for combating low RH is a LARGE and deep bog. It'll take more time to dehydrate since there will be more water. Using containers inside of larger containers you can make a nice bog. Brokken has some very nice bogs that may give you some nice ideas and I have some bogs myself. You can take a look at my album in the signature below if you'd like and Brokken has a great 8 pg thread on the ICPS website which I have followed since I started growing CPs.

You'll be surprised how touch Sarrs and VFTs and even Drosera can be! Even in blistering heat!
All I can say is try and foresee as much as you can and the rest comes as lessons learned.

Hope this helps! Good luck!
 
Thanks for the warm welcome =]
That's good advice, I think I'll dig around the forums a bit, see if I can't turn up some good info.
And I'll be sure yo have a look at your album and certainly your giveaway. Nothing wrong with free plants! =P
 
Zone 6 in and of itself ought not be a bad place for them year round even in winter.

As far as your high temps, so long as the plants are well watered then you should have no issues. We get a couple weeks here in the upper 90s/low 100s and all my Sarrs do fine.

Humidity is definitely going to be your main issue and I am more inclined to say that the lack of humidity causing your pots to dry out is the biggest problem I see. Easiest way to beat that is to just make sure you keep the plants watered well. I know a lot of people advocate the tray method but years of growing has shown me that that is an almost certain way to encourage the fungus that causes rhizome melt. I find that potted Sarrs do significantly better when top watered. For you, this might mean you have to water a couple times daily just to keep the media moist.

If you are so inclined you may want to look into the idea of a bog garden. The extra mass of the soil would help to buffer the temps for you and would help with humidity/watering issue as well. I went to bogs a few years back and it has simplified my life considerably.
 
hmmm..tricky problem.
im not all familiar with desert environments, (never even been to one! ;)
but IMO all you can do is grow the plants "normally" and see how they do..

get DEEP trays of water..
I have been using "the tray method" for 16 years..never had a problem.
I have never even heard of this "rhizome melt" that Pyro mentioned..not saying it doesnt happen,
(and if it does, I doubt its because of too much water) but I wouldnt worry about it..
sarrs generally cant be over-watered! some people keep the water table nearly at the surface for extended periods..

from what I have seen, the tray method is "tried and true" and works great..
you want LOTS of water, especially in your environment..dont worry about it being too much water!
"too much" is always better than "too little" for Sarrs and VFT's..get trays like this:

CP2008-118.jpg


CP2008-119.jpg


Keep the tray filled all the time, to the top, so that maybe only 2" to 5" of the pot (depending on the pot size) is "above water"..

you could try to rig a sunshade to filter the mid-day sun..maybe some slats or shade cloth that shade the plants between 11:00 and 2:00 or so..mid-day when the sun and heat are the most intense, but then allows "full sun" in the morning and later afternoon..

IMO, Zone 6 is too cold to overwinter sarrs and VFTs outdoors in pots..
Zone 6 is "borderline safe" if plants are in the ground, in a bog, with heavy mulching..
but definately not safe for plants in pots..
you need to be Zone 7 or higher to have no worries for outdoor dormancy..
but it sounds like you get cool enough in the fall that the fridge might work fine for you..
I have some thoughts on zones and fridges here:

http://gold.mylargescale.com/scottychaos/CP/page2.html


Scot
 
  • #10
I have never even heard of this "rhizome melt" that Pyro mentioned..not saying it doesnt happen,
(and if it does, I doubt its because of too much water) but I wouldnt worry about it..
sarrs generally cant be over-watered! some people keep the water table nearly at the surface for extended periods..

I never said that rhizome melt was caused by "too much water". I said that using the tray method seems to encourages the growth of the fungus that causes rhizome melt. And I am not the only person who has seen this phenomenon. I know the Meeks in FL have encountered the same thing, as has Ron Lane up there and And Jay L in VA and ABG and Brooks Garcia here. Phil Faulisi has also discussed with me a "syndrome" that occasionally has wiped out some of his plants that sounds to be the same beast. And not long ago Wolfn was talking about losing his S. minor and his description was spot on of the disease. And IIRC you were contributing to that thread and the Meeks actually addressed the melt/rot in there...

http://www.terraforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118133&highlight=minor

ABG, the Meeks and myself all came to the same solution and that it to top water. It allows the water to flow and keeps it from stagnating and allows for air penetration into the media. Doing this markedly curbs the incidence of this syndrome.

My own conversations with numerous growers has also lead me to believe there is a correlation between this syndrome and heat. Most New England and Mid-Atlantic growers only seem to encounter it rarely where as most of us Southern growers seem to encounter it yearly. And given the OPs location and the heat in said location I would be inclined to think that he would be more susceptible to potential melt/rot. I feel forewarned is forearmed so I am letting the OP know what could happen so that he can deal with it if it should happen.
 
  • #11
You both make good points, so I think I'm just going to have to wing it and hope for the best, though I'll definitely take into account everything said here. Thanks so much everyone, for all the help. This was a very nice way to be welcomed to the forums :-D
 
  • #12
Hiya, welcome to TF! :welcome:

Well. Everything has pretty much been mentioned, haha. We do have some desert growers here, so I guess you can consult with them or use the search function to look for a thread about Sarracenias in deserts. Hope this helps. :) Have fun with this new addiction/hobby!
 
  • #13
I'm a desert grower. :D I'm growing in the Mojave, or at least at the edge of the Mojave. Nevertheless, my area experiences extremes in terms of temperatures similar to you your area. Very hot in the summer and very cold in the winter. While I've had some trouble with flytraps, I haven't lost a single Sarracenia to date. Most are acclimated to the heat and tolerate it quite well. In fact they don't have problems even when the daily high goes up to 105F.. sometimes even up to 110F.

Here is what I do when the scorching heat hits:

-I use pots of all sizes... the size depends on the plant's size. I don't use overly large pots, though.
-I always top water no matter what. The tray method doesn't work because most of the water evaporates away. Using cooler water from indoors helps lower the temperature inside the pot.
-I do let the runoff gather in the tray. Sometimes after top watering, after the runoff goes down to the tray, I fill the tray up, but only AFTER top watering with cool water.
-On the hottest days, I water once in the morning and once in the afternoon. If the plants are in full sun and its a 105+ day, I also top water in the middle of the day.
-If it's going to stay above 105 for more than a few hours, I consider moving the plants to a more shaded area.


As you can tell, watering is key. Forget to water on one of those lovely days and that's all it may take...:devil:


Oh let me share this with you to. I thought of this set up two years ago and works for the smaller pots. I'll let the picture do the talking:

lt11.jpg




Desert growing is very possible. Good luck!
 
  • #14
I guess im confused..
Joosa, you say "The tray method doesn't work because most of the water evaporates away"..
but then you go on to describe how you use the tray method! ;)
you photo IS the tray method! ;)

there is no set "tray size" to "the tray method"..
you are simply using bigger trays!
the tray doesnt have to be small or shallow..

if you have a pot in any container that holds water, its "the tray method"..
to *not* be the tray method, you would have to have no container that holds water..
like a minibog, or a circulating pump, or just "top watering" with no container to catch the water..something like that..

you can still "top water" with the tray method..just water the pot, and the water seeps down into the tray..the tray simply keeps the overall mositure high..it makes no difference (to the tray method) *how* you water..you can "top water" or simply fill the tray..

yes it might make a difference how you water if you are concerned about the "rhizome melt"..so you might want to only top water then..but thats not a factor of "the tray method", thats unrelated to the tray method....you can top water with, or without, a tray..and you can use a tray with or without top watering..the tray method does not specify any specific watering technique..it only holds water.

I think we are getting terms confused here..
to me, everything discussed so far in this thread has simply been variations on "the tray method"..

thoughts?

Scot
 
  • #15
I guess your right... Hehe :)

However, I always thought the "traditional" tray method was to simply fill the tray and let the pot's media absorb the water via the pot's holes. This is what doesn't work for me and what I was referring to in my post.

I guess what I describe and use is a version of the tray method. :) I was just trying to emphasize the top watering as a priority.
 
  • #16
ok..that makes sense..
I just never saw "the tray method" as specifically requiring no top watering! ;)
(and I still believe it does not imply any specific watering technique..the tray is seperate from the watering method..)

celloman,
hope we havent confused you too much! :)

Scot
 
  • #17
I think we are getting terms confused here..
to me, everything discussed so far in this thread has simply been variations on "the tray method"..

I apologize if I was not clear but I was never talking about a variation of the tray method where you water from the top and let the water collect in a tray. When I said top water I meant water the plants from the top and the excess drains out and runs away because there is no tray involved. The few Sarrs I have in pots do not sit in water. Ever.
 
  • #18
You may want to consider something like this, where the pots are in a planter, filledt with peat. The peat acts as an insulator and absorbs excess moisture. The experts say that VFT's don't like being water logged. I just top water on days when there isn't rain. The water "wets their whistle" for the day and drains right through.

Picture038-2.jpg


Picture003-11.jpg
 
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