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Cephalotus problems

  • #21
OK then, I guess I'll go and repot it, I just hope that I caught the problem early enough.

Thanks. :)

PS....I wonder how the vendor was able to keep it alive and looking good in the sand/peat mix so long?
 
  • #22
who knows, some have luck with a heavy peat/sand mix... but most don't
and it may limp along for years like it is...

there are many levels of success Exo
 
  • #23
Alright then, off I go.
 
  • #24
Exo,

All I can say is...
Av8 knows what he's talking about, and what works best for him.
It's not that you can't grow a ceph in the mix you are talking about,
after all, you got it planted in that mix.
BUT!!!!....
as you yourself are saying, the plant is not doing well under its current conditions.

There are so many subtle variables (temperature, humidity, light-how long/how intense,
etc.) that affect a plant and the subtle "balance" that it needs. Each type of plant has its own general "range" of ideal conditions, and when one variable is off, it affects the balance and so something else needs to change in order to keep that balance and stay within the needed "range" under which the plant will thrive.
There's also a difference between surviving and thriving. Your plant may survive in peat/sand/charcoal, but under general conditions it may not "thrive".
For a rare and expensive plant like a Cephlotus, I would think it would be worth it to run out within a few days to find some perlite (or to order it online), along with whatever else you may need.

Something Av8 was saying, was that in addition to moisture, a Ceph's roots need AIR exchange in order to supply the needed oxygen! The heavy mix of peat and sand may hold a lot of moisture, but heavy mixes don't allow for the exchange of air, and so the plant suffers.

Again, as Av8 himself says, there are a lot of ways to do things. Indeed because we all have varying factors (micro-climate-environments) in which we grow our plants in, there is some variation (within a range) of what we can get away doing with our plants. Someone living in Oregon or Washington state is going to have a different environment in so many ways, from a person in Arizona or New York or Florida! That is why growing say...certain Neps... outdoors, is extremely easy for one person but near impossible for someone else. (But then that "someone else" may be able to grow VFT's outdoors thru the year better than the person in Oregon/Washington!) Even growing indoors varies tremendously from one home to another. Because of this, some variation is necessary in growing conditions and techniques for the same plant!
People forget that, even here, and that is what has led to the "conflicts about growing methods" that Av8 spoke of.

Back to YOUR Ceph plant... Keep in mind that watering it weekly isn't just about giving it moisture, it is about the exchange of air (oxygen/Co2). Indeed, adjusting the mixture will be necessary if you plan on watering it more regularly. As Av8 tried to tell you, your wanting to stay with only peat/sand/charcoal mixture may not keep your plant in the "range" of ideal conditions the plant desires and needs.

As far as transplanting it safely,
I assume you have already done a search on TF under "Cephalotus transplanting" or "re-potting", or even looked at other posts by Av8 to see what else he might have said about Cephs, or/and searched the net/online for other Ceph-sites like
( http://www.aqph26.dsl.pipex.com/index.html ) for instance.
If you have, I also assume you have found some techniques, like the water submerging method to loosen the planting mix, or seen some of the many pics online showing how they did their re-potting.... Keep in mind that there are many ways to "skin a cat" (or transplant a Ceph, in this case), and like anything else, what works best for one person may not work best for another.

I can tell you that from what I have seen, there are a few people here who seem to know quite a bit about growing cephs. Of the people here who come to mind who I would trust on the subject, Av8 does have a lot of good experience and knows what he is talking about.

Again, do keep in mind, YOUR individual environment has variations only you can be aware of, and so you ultimately are the one to determine what is best to do. What works for me may not work for Av8, and what works for him may not work best for you. One size does not ENTIRELY fit-all!

I know you thought AV8 was being vague earlier, but from the sidelines he seemed pretty straight forward. Offhand from the look of it, it seemed you were wanting him to give you permission to plant your ceph in peat/sand only, so you wouldn't have to get perlite and other desired media. He kept talking about you using the mix he suggested (to get the best results/success), but your question was indeed confusing!
You said:
I just want to find a mix that I can make with the ingredients I have so that I won't lose my ceph.
Well, he told you that using ONLY the ingredients you had was NOT in the best interest of your plant. It was only when you asked this:
Considering the list of ingredients I have on hand, can you recommend the best possible mix that I could make with them?
that he gave you a guess/suggestion.
If you really are concerned about your plant as you said, I myself would suggest going out and getting the proper ingredients for a good "soil-mix" as Av8 first suggested you do. (We have all been there at one point or another, so I DO understand where you are at.) However from experience, I am making the suggestion that I am. Until you get the "knack" of it, Cephs can be a bit difficult to grow, and if you are serious about wanting to grow one, then you need to give the plant the best chance you can, and that means the best care you can.
Making do with "the things I have on-hand" is not much as far as getting a Ceph to survive.
I am not sure what prevents you from buying the recommended ingredients, but I am sure you have a good reason. I hope you have better success than many of us have had when cutting corners.
Good luck and good growing!
 
  • #25
I also would have to side with Butch (Av8tor1) in that Cephalotus tend to do far better -- in the long run -- in more open composts, similar to the "Charles Brewer's Mix" he recommended, and dislike being water-logged.

Also, nothing speaks quite louder than success . . .
 
  • #26
GrowingOld
BigBella

:hail:
 
  • #27
I have had really good success growing it in the same way I do my mexican pings. Water once a week and leave it alone.
 
  • #28
Well, I think the repoting went well, I used the peat, sand, pine mulch, and charcoal mix in about equal perportions and some LFS as a top dressing and I noticed that it holds alot of water, but drains MUCH faster than before. When I repoted it I was suprised at the roots, instead of the "carrots" I expected, it had a wirey tan root that branched off into three sections and went straight to the bottom of the pot and imbeded themselves in the LFS used to plug the bottom holes. I was able to carefully was the soil off in a tub of water and move the roots and sphag clump to a new, and taller pot. As far as I know, I didn't break a single root.

I think it went well since the plant doesn't look any different today than yesterday, here's hoping that all goes well.

BTW Growinold, it's nearly impossible to get non-miracle grow perlite around here, and I am out of live LFS. Hopefully, the pine mulch will do the job of the perlite in this case.
 
  • #29
Well Exo,
Good to hear you have your plant settled into its future home.
Perhaps the pine mulch and your efforts were just what the plant needed.
We will certainly all hope for the best for your Ceph!

Perhaps the mix you planted it in will work out as well
or maybe even better, than the ones Av8 suggested.
Who knows, as I said earlier, we all have different environments
and so our plants can handle (or need) slightly different things.
Time will tell. I am sure we would all like to hear your results.
That is how new methods are discovered... by trying something different!

It does seem that the Cephs roots adjusted to the media it was planted in,
by running down and branching as you mentioned. Perhaps they will grow more
"normally" in this new mix they are now in. It will be interesting to see if they again
do something to accommodate it too. Plants are amazing in their ability to
deal with and adapt to their surroundings!

By the way, since you made a point of mentioning it,
like you, a lot of people have trouble finding "un-fertlized perlite".
Here's a site you might be interested in:
http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m38.l1313&_nkw=perlite&_sacat=See-All-Categories
There is a lot of other supplies you can get here too, if you look around.
Perhaps you may use it in the future, if you decide you ever do have need.

Good Luck!


Bella, funny to see you here.... you would have been my other valued opinion on the subject! :bigthumpup:
And Av, ur :welcome: ! Always appreciate & value hearing your "wisdom"/opinion!
I may not always follow it or agree, but I always like hearing it! (Kiddin')

Take care all!
:headwall: Paul ??? I think I had too much time on my hands this past week! :scratch:
 
  • #30
LOL, thanks Paul.... and yeah I know :blush: ;)

Good luck Exo
Av
 
  • #31
Thanks for the site, next time I have to repot it I will add some perlite to the mix....unless I find that it becomes super vigorous in my mix.

At least the stuff I'm using now drains better, and that's apparently one of the most important things.
 
  • #32
My fav mix for years has been

deep containters filled with:

30% Milled Sphagnum (Peat is acceptable)
25% Coir fiber
25% Perlite or APS
10% Sand
5% Charcoal
5% Chooped Live Sphagnum
This is similar to my current favourite mix which consists of:

50% Dried NZ Sphagnum moss
25% Perlite
10% Peat
10% Sand
5% Charcoal

All the percentages are estimates, as I tend to make the mix by feel and appearance.

I stand the pot in a saucer of water, which I allow to empty before replenishing. The plants seem to like this 'open' mix. Previous to this, I used peat/sand/perlite mix but with this I used taller pots (longtoms) with the saucer watering method so that the surface does not get too wet. I also use Trichoderma.
 
  • #33
Well, I checked today and I noticed that the plant is no longer making nectar and the peristomes are dry, but I assume that this is just a water conservation method, no sign of drooping lids of dying leaves.
 
  • #34
Oh it will probably complain some, you might as well accept that fact....

It was already stressed and you just stressed it even more.... but it was the lesser of two evils
So it will probably get worse before it gets better... you've got to be patient

Since you had no "carrots" the plant has very little reserves to work with, recovery may be slow and difficult

Av
 
  • #35
Oh it will probably complain some, you might as well accept that fact....

It was already stressed and you just stressed it even more.... but it was the lesser of two evils
So it will probably get worse before it gets better... you've got to be patient

Since you had no "carrots" the plant has very little reserves to work with, recovery may be slow and difficult

Av

Yeah, I thought as much, but I consider the fact that it isn't turning into a pile of crispy leaves yet a moderate success.....although I'll probably regret saying that within a few days. :rolleyes:
 
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