Helioamphora vs cephalotus

[Exo]

I know this question can be a bit relative, but in your experience.....which on of these plants is generally harder to grow, and why?

This is considering that efforts are made to create an enviroment sutable for the plants (temp drops, good humidity, and good lighting)

From what I've hear and seen, cephalotus takes the cake, but I want opinions from those who have grown both.

Thanks.

 

[Jefforever]

How do you think you can provide for them?

In stagnant, non-fluctuating temperatures kept steady at about room temp, Heliamphoras are definately more difficult. Although sometimes helis can bolt on very rare occasions.

But I've seen your grow setup so you should have great success with both.

 

[Exo]

How do you think you can provide for them?

In stagnant, non-fluctuating temperatures kept steady at about room temp, Heliamphoras are definately more difficult. Although sometimes helis can bolt on very rare occasions.

But I've seen your grow setup so you should have great success with both.

Well, so far my ceph is having issues, but I think that has more to do with the soil it came in and the subsequent repotting and my conditions.

My conditions range from highland in the summer to ultra highland in the winter with 75% hunidity in the day and 85-90% at night.

 

[BigBella]

In my view, Cephalotus and Heliamphora are on a par; though, Heliamphora hybrids -- H. heterodoxa x minor, H. nutans x ionasii, etc. -- are far more tolerant of "user error" than the individual species or of Cephalotus itself.

I successfully grow Heliamphora and Cephalotus as I would highland and ultra-highland Nepenthes -- a reasonable temperature (in the seventies) by day with a distinct drop at night, (generally into the low fifties) . . .

 

[Frilleon]

I would have to agree with BigBella. I have found both to be similar in growing. I too grow them with all my Highland neps with great results.

 

[thez_yo]

Cephalotus is as easy to grow and requires exactly the same water/sun/temps as D.capensis in my experience, except I grow cephs in 2perlite:1peat instead of the 1perlite:1peat for the D.capensis. Both are in 3" pots. I fill 1cm of water in the tray when the tray dries out for a day, then I refill with 1cm water again. No misting, 6-7 hours direct dawn-noon sun, and 70ish during the day/60ish at night for the winter with close to 90ish during the day and 80ish at night for the real hot months in the summer. This is on a window sill.

I have a heli on the same window as those two, and it dries out crispy if I don't mist every day, and I don't even know what to repot the thing in when it outgrows its current pot (bought it potted). I have no idea what its heat tolerance is because I bought it in the winter, but I'm guessing it might kick the bucket at 90 degrees (it's an H.nutans). And I'm not sure if I ever need to water it, but the misting every day to wet the moss on top is all it ever gets watered in its 3" pot.

 

[RL7836]

In my view, Cephalotus and Heliamphora are on a par; ...

Wow - hate to differ w/ 'The Bella' - but I can't help myself...

Cephs are adaptable to a wide variety of conditions. They can adapt to:
- sunny southern windowsill
- east-facing windowsill (morning sun only)
- north-facing windowsill (no direct sun at all)
- terrarium growing - highland, intermediate (& possibly lowland)
- everything from bright, direct sun to diffuse shade
- sitting on blacktop driveway all summer w/ southern exposure w/ NJ temps (80-95+*F)
- varying media (including 100% peat) & water levels
- growing like a temperate w/ VFTs (defined temperate seasonality)
- growing in a terrarium w/ no seasonality
- humidities ranging from close to 100% to less than 20% in mid-winter

I understand that Cephs have been a 'problem' plant for many people & other than most people's tendency to keep them too wet, I can't explain why this is so. I also understand that my experiences are apparently not the 'norm'. However, although they tend to dislike rapid change, if given the opportunity to acclimate, I find they will grow well in an incredibly wide variety of conditions ... and do so with a decent amount of 'happiness'. In addition, they are also one of the easiest CPs to propagate....

My tenure w/ Heli's is much shorter than w/ Cephs but my meager level of experience (coupled w/ what I read regularly), suggests that most non-hybrids are a much pickier bunch and prefer specific conditions: light levels, media, humidity levels to truly be 'happy'.

Flycatcher's 1st & 2nd posts in this thread also make me realize how tenuous a position I may be in & this makes me even more thankful for my current status w/ these plants. Otoh - there seems to be a similar issue with Heli's as shown in this thread (see comment by A. Fleischmann). These remain two reasons (among others) why I continue to use Trichoderma ....

All statements are IMHO & the line to differ starts here ....

 

[BigBella]

I understand that Cephs have been a 'problem' plant for many people & other than most people's tendency to keep them too wet, I can't explain why this is so. I also understand that my experiences are apparently not the 'norm'. However, although they tend to dislike rapid change, if given the opportunity to acclimate, I find they will grow well in an incredibly wide variety of conditions ... and do so with a decent amount of 'happiness'. In addition, they are also one of the easiest CPs to propagate....

My tenure w/ Heli's is much shorter than w/ Cephs but my meager level of experience (coupled w/ what I read regularly), suggests that most non-hybrids are a much pickier bunch and prefer specific conditions: light levels, media, humidity levels to truly be 'happy'.

All statements are IMHO & the line to differ starts here ....

Disagree with me until you're blue in the face, pal. "Reading" about Heliamphora doesn't mean scheiß until you've grown them for a while. Every grower's experiences differ and failures with both genera -- judging from the frequent, sometimes frantic posts here -- are equally common.

I have no problem growing either plant; and I had already mentioned in the course of above post that Heliamphora hybrids were generally simpler to grow than many of the species themselves; that being said, I have grown both genera in all of those conditions that you had listed soley for Cephalotus with equal success. Both Cephalotus and Heliamphora have been grown on windowsills, outside, under lights, various exposures, humidity, and temperature regimes. Also, neither experiences any dormancy under my cultivation and both have been propagated -- leaf-cutting, divisions, etc. -- with equal success.

But it would be irresponsible for me to suggest that a novice grower attempt what I have been doing for years, especially with such expensive plants. Growing both as highlanders is probably the safest route, simply judging from the sheer number of people I know who successfully grow both in that fashion.

Heliamphora nutans "Giant" (grown for over ten years -- often with Cephalotus alongside -- in environments ranging in Tbs from 0-40˚ C, on South and East-facing windows, in tanks at one time, and currently outside under highland conditions.)

Heliamphora heterodoxa x minor (grown for over ten years, in environments ranging in Tbs from 0-40˚ C, and currently "happy" at room Tb, on a South-facing windowsill, above my kitchen sink.)

 

[Exo]

I have become somewhat familliar with what most people consider a good soil for cephalotus (a peaty, coarse mix that stays moist but drains well), but what soil mix is usually reccomended for Helios? Is it different than the soil used for cephs?

 

[BigBella]

I have become somewhat familliar with what most people consider a good soil for cephalotus (a peaty, coarse mix that stays moist but drains well), but what soil mix is usually reccomended for Helios? Is it different than the soil used for cephs?

Heliamphora generally like something a bit more "open," a compost similar to those used by Nepenthes growers. I have used various mixes over the years, but generally prefer a combination of live sphagnum moss, pumice, and perlite. Other growers swear by cypress-based mixes -- and I never argue with success . . .

 

[Exo]

Heliamphora generally like something a bit more "open," a compost similar to those used by Nepenthes growers. I have used various mixes over the years, but generally prefer a combination of live sphagnum moss, pumice, and perlite. Other growers swear by cypress-based mixes -- and I never argue with success . . .

So Helios are grown pretty much like highland Neps......if so, I would think that this would make them easier to care for than cephs considering that soil and water preferences seem much more clear.

 

[BigBella]

So Helios are grown pretty much like highland Neps......if so, I would think that this would make them easier to care for than cephs considering that soil and water preferences seem much more clear.

I currently grow both under the same conditions. The weather in the San Francisco Bay Area is similar to that of Albany, Australia (the home of Cephalotus) and, strangely, also that of high-altitude Venezuela, Brazil, and SE Asia (that of Heliamphora and Nepenthes). Highland conditions; for that matter, my Cephalotus and ultra-highland Nepenthes -- N. macrophylla, N. villosa, etc. -- happily grow alongside.

Since I don't have the time to regularly futz with the plants, I leave them to their own devices. It's the simplest solution; though, as I have already said, I have grown them under differing conditions -- but that requires more attention and time that I do not possess . . .

 

[RSS]

From simply answering the original question I would side with Hel's. If you provide them with there requirements you should have no problems with them. Now with all the species out there this question is muddled some depending on what species we are talking about.

However, if you provide Ceph's with there requirements you might still end up losing 1 in 20 plants for no good reason.

On the other side of things, if you are not going to give them everything they require and try to cut corners, Ceph's are easier IMO.

 

[Exo]

From simply answering the original question I would side with Hel's. If you provide them with there requirements you should have no problems with them. Now with all the species out there this question is muddled some depending on what species we are talking about.

However, if you provide Ceph's with there requirements you might still end up losing 1 in 20 plants for no good reason.

On the other side of things, if you are not going to give them everything they require and try to cut corners, Ceph's are easier IMO.

Thanks, this is the kind of answer I've been looking for.

 

[RSS]

Flycatcher's 1st & 2nd posts in this thread also make me realize how tenuous a position I may be in & this makes me even more thankful for my current status w/ these plants. Otoh - there seems to be a similar issue with Heli's as shown in this thread (see comment by A. Fleischmann). These remain two reasons (among others) why I continue to use Trichoderma ....

I wonder if anyone has tried using cinnamon (a fungicide) when one of there Ceph's start this. I've used it with orchids with good success when I end up with rotting due to user error.

 

[BigBella]

I wonder if anyone has tried using cinnamon (a fungicide) when one of there Ceph's start this. I've used it with orchids with good success when I end up with rotting due to user error.

I have found neem oil solutions (Garden Light Neem II is a current favorite) to be a far more effective fungicide than cinnamon or sulphur (both of which I have tried). Also, I have used it on a number of genera -- Nepenthes, Heliamphora, Cephalotus, and Sarracenia -- without any damages or loss . . .

 

[thez_yo]

BigBella: agreed. I use both when things are in danger of going south. I neem&cinnamon sundews, cephs & sarrs when they start looking slimy, or just 2X a year to "clean up" the soil.

 

[Hermopolis]

I wonder if anyone has tried using cinnamon (a fungicide) when one of there Ceph's start this. I've used it with orchids with good success when I end up with rotting due to user error.

I started using cinnamon for nepenthes cuttings this year. It works great! All my cuttings succumbed to fungus prior to using it. I'm very happy with it.

-Hermes.

 

[mobile]

For me, with my growing conditions, Cephalotus grow more successfully than Heliamphora. I have some success with growing Heliamphora x heterodoxa hybrids in similar conditions to Cephalotus but Heliamphora species typically require more 'specialised' conditions. As an example, I have a Cephalotus and a Heliamphora heterodoxa x ionasii both growing on my kitchen windowsill, they both produce pitchers but the Heliamphora does not produce good nectar spoons.I find Cephalotus to be really easy and non demanding to grow. If I invested money and time in a terrarium, with appropriate lighting and night time drops then maybe Heliamphora would grow better but Cephalotus don't need all of this and are happy to grow on a windowsill or under a CFL. Please be aware that this is in 'my growing conditions' and other growers in different climates will have different results.

 

[nightsky]

In my limited experience, I think Cephs are easier. Not that heli's are much different, but they are touchy for me due to humidity. They seem so sensitive to humidity fluctuations and dry out fairly easy. It keeps me on my toes to make sure I check my humidifier every day. Missed a day last week, and they took quite a hit. The cephs didn't hiccup.