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Thread: A Cephalotus Collection fit for a King! [warning: picture heavy]

  1. #57
    wicked good plants! Presto's Avatar
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    Guys! Don't be jerks. Remember, this is the CP community, not the orchid community!

    Be respectful to one another, and check your tone. Remember, sometimes tone doesn't translate well through the internet. I find it helpful to read through what I've written 2 or 3 times to make sure it sounds the way I intended...I suggest you all do the same.

    WRONG:
    LOLOLOLOL I have N3w pl4nt!!! Bow before the ALMIGHTY GOD of EBAY!!!!11111eleventy

    RIGHT:
    Hey guys, check out my new plant!

    WRONG:
    FOOLISH NOOB! No ship that small has a cloaking device!

    RIGHT:
    Nice plant, but are you sure it is what you think it is? That cultivar is extremely rare and probably goes for thousands of dollars. It looks a little etiolated...is it getting enough sun?


    If somebody's ticking you off, ignore them.

    If you act like kids, we'll treat you like kids. And I got a stomach bug from some kids a few days ago. I've been unable to drink coffee for three days. I currently hate kids. You wouldn't want me to treat you like a kid.
    -Emily

  2. #58
    mobile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Presto View Post
    Guys! Don't be jerks. Remember, this is the CP community, not the orchid community!

    Be respectful to one another, and check your tone. Remember, sometimes tone doesn't translate well through the internet. I find it helpful to read through what I've written 2 or 3 times to make sure it sounds the way I intended...I suggest you all do the same.

    WRONG:
    LOLOLOLOL I have N3w pl4nt!!! Bow before the ALMIGHTY GOD of EBAY!!!!11111eleventy

    RIGHT:
    Hey guys, check out my new plant!

    WRONG:
    FOOLISH NOOB! No ship that small has a cloaking device!

    RIGHT:
    Nice plant, but are you sure it is what you think it is? That cultivar is extremely rare and probably goes for thousands of dollars. It looks a little etiolated...is it getting enough sun?


    If somebody's ticking you off, ignore them.

    If you act like kids, we'll treat you like kids. And I got a stomach bug from some kids a few days ago. I've been unable to drink coffee for three days. I currently hate kids. You wouldn't want me to treat you like a kid.
    I'm sorry to read about your stomach bug and caffeine withdrawal, something I am well familiar with, being the father of twin daughters - twice the opportunity for bugs to get hold.

    On the subject of this thread, there is a large amount of goading going on. To be honest, I'm surprised that the thread has been allowed to continue, as it is no longer a discussion and has become somewhat pointless. Perhaps it is time for it to be locked?

  3. #59

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    Hmmmm, I must say this is a touchy thread! I can add some comments here regarding cultivar level publication rules in general...although I haven't read this publication. Consider that the most important element in a cultivar publication is a list of distinguishing characteristics that *set this plant apart* from other individuals. By the Rules, ANY individual exactly matching the legitimately published example MUST be called by the registered cultivar name. This means that if in my collection a form arises that *exactly matches the registered cultivar description* I have not only the right but the responsibility to use the registered name. Cultivar publication DOES NOT, and was never intended to grant ownership rights! For this reason, prospective authors wishing to register a cultivar NAME (which is all that is done in publishing) are encouraged to be as specific as they can be when addressing these distinguishing characteristics. Mr. Morely may not have sent this plant abroad, and perhaps no one did, but it is entirely possible within the natural variation in populations for closely similar clone to arise, and if this agrees exactly with the legitimate publication, then there you have it. It's up to each grower to refer to the reference provided by the publication...therein to agree or disagree, to buy or not to buy, and no amount of policing to control "RARE" material will ever provide assurances that what you paid for is what you got. Cultivar publication cannot control natural variation, nor may any person own it without a lot more effort than is granted by publishing at cultivar level.
    "Grow More, Share More"

  4. #60
    mobile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamlin Dawnstar View Post
    Hmmmm, I must say this is a touchy thread! I can add some comments here regarding cultivar level publication rules in general...although I haven't read this publication. Consider that the most important element in a cultivar publication is a list of distinguishing characteristics that *set this plant apart* from other individuals. By the Rules, ANY individual exactly matching the legitimately published example MUST be called by the registered cultivar name. This means that if in my collection a form arises that *exactly matches the registered cultivar description* I have not only the right but the responsibility to use the registered name. Cultivar publication DOES NOT, and was never intended to grant ownership rights! For this reason, prospective authors wishing to register a cultivar NAME (which is all that is done in publishing) are encouraged to be as specific as they can be when addressing these distinguishing characteristics. Mr. Morely may not have sent this plant abroad, and perhaps no one did, but it is entirely possible within the natural variation in populations for closely similar clone to arise, and if this agrees exactly with the legitimate publication, then there you have it. It's up to each grower to refer to the reference provided by the publication...therein to agree or disagree, to buy or not to buy, and no amount of policing to control "RARE" material will ever provide assurances that what you paid for is what you got. Cultivar publication cannot control natural variation, nor may any person own it without a lot more effort than is granted by publishing at cultivar level.
    With regards to 'Eden Black', the cultivar description states 'To preserve the unique characteristics of the plant it should only be propagated vegetatively via leaf or rhizome cuttings, or by division'

    Source: http://www.carnivorousplants.org/cul...ltivar_web.pdf

  5. #61
    Not Growing Up! GrowinOld's Avatar
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    Indeed I know all about ebb & flow,
    and my pointing out this being the "ebb" part of the cycle doesn't mean I think it permanent,
    just sad to see it take place.

    As I mentioned earlier, this doesn't merit a legitimate response.
    Some people aren't capable of taking things seriously, for whatever reason,
    so I don't understand why people continue to bother trying when they see that in someone.

    If we could see the people we are talking to, much of this would be avoided.
    There are people I meet at a gathering who I know right off the bat, that I am not going to be comfortable associating with (for various reasons that I won't go into here), so for the rest of the gathering,
    I do not talk to them much or hang around with them. Most others don't either for similar reasons, while some do! It is all a part of the dynamics of relating that the internet forum restricts by its very nature.
    I understand how frustrating this is and aggravating too, but giving more attention to this and continuing to play this game is no way to stop it! Turn your attention elsewhere and let this drop. It is about getting attention, and the more you give it the more it thrives.
    Why do you need a moderator to stop what you already can?

    Just my 2 cents again on where this has finally come.
    Have fun kids!

    And Tamlin, Nice to see you! I see you brought logic to this subject again (right before I was gonna post!), but I think it won't be understood by many, or at least by those who need it! I don't know why it is so hard to understand, but I think some people don't care. Indeed this appears to be a problem with some people, and it seems we will need to really trust who we buy/trade with.
    Experience is the best teacher. At least it used to be.
    But then, common sense isn't so common anymore, is it.


    http://www.terraforums.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=113866

  6. #62
    mobile's Avatar
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    My last word on the subject. Whether the cultivar is genuine or not has very little effect on me, as I live in the UK, so am very unlikely to get caught up in buying one of the offspring. I think that growers that side of the Atlantic should care though. Given the value of 'Eden Black' I would make an assumption that an offspring from the plant in this post will eventually make it onto eBay or traded in some way, if the plant survives. Whilst you might not buy it yourself, someone who you trust might end up with it in their collection! Ultimately, people could end up paying a lot of money for a 'cultivar' that might not be what it is claimed to be. Caveat emptor people.

    HAPPY HOGMANAY

    Carl

  7. #63
    gardenofeden's Avatar
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    well I have not been on here for a few years now, but though I had to correct a few things

    Quote Originally Posted by Listserv.org View Post
    My source has been friends with Morley for the past 15 years and obtained his stock plants from him, and that's all that matters to me. I'm now in possession of one of said stock plants.
    I have never distributed "stock plants". What growers get from me (for "free", with a donation of their choice to charity) is just a rooted leaf, which would take many years to get to the size of the plant you have pictured. Only one person has got any plant of reasonable size, which they then sold recently as they disbanded their collection, to another UK grower.

    Just to give people a little bit of background about Eden Black: it's been around for years, if not decades.
    I have only been distributing plants for a few years, for many years there was only one plant and this was grown in low light so the potential was not realised. Only 3 UK based (male) growers have a plant they got from me. I have not known any of these 3 people for anything like 15 years.

    However, what concerns me more than your claim to grow a specific clone is that you have imported a plant from the UK. Your photo shows a well established plant in a pot, so presumably you imported it with soil? In a pot? I did not think your import regulations permitted that (assuming you are in the US?)? Was it imported with Aphis permits and phytosanitary certificates? I think your Dept of Agriculture would be most interested to know your response.
    Stephen
    Sarracenia rosea?...don't be ridiculous!

  8. #64
    Brokken's Avatar
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    "There is no pain as great as being alive,
    no burden heavier than that of conscious life. "
    -Rubén Darío-

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