Originally Posted by richs
maybe..but I highly doubt 36 degrees will do anything to them..
a frost yes, could do some damage to new growth, but not 36 degrees..
We hit 80 yesterday..we will probably hit 35 in a few days..
but I wont even consider moving my plants from the deck..thats "business as usual" for early spring..the plants wont care, wont phase them at all..
Yes, but I are your plants out in the open? A direct hit from a hard frost does much more damage than exposure to cold air. Now there seems to be a misunderstanding here - although, my thermometer read 36 degrees, a HARD sugar like coating of ice on the ground denotes a hard frost - my larger groups of Sarracenias with pitcher and flower formation in all stages in the open remained untouched - something I have never experienced in the 20 years of growing carnivores.
well..you said 36 degrees..so I was commenting on that.
Originally Posted by richs
but its physically impossible to have frost at 36 degrees.
the frost must have formed over night when it was *colder* than 36 degrees..
or..you got some kind of frozen rain or ""graupel" or some flavor of semi-frozen precipitation..which could fall from the sky at 36 degrees..
But thats completely different than "36 degrees", which by itself is completely harmless, and is what I was referring to..
That's usually when frost "happens"
when? at 36 degrees?
Originally Posted by richs
no..never..cant happen, its against the laws of physics.
The surface the frost forms on has to be below freezing..because water simply wont freeze above 32 degrees!
So it was either below 32 degrees, for frost to form..
or..IMO from your description, it sounds more likely to me that you simply got some sort of frozen precipatation from the sky..that is totally plausable and happens all the time..
it freezes up high, where its much colder, then falls to the ground where the surface air temp can be above freezing, then it slowly melts..
but for frost..you had to be below 32..cant happen at 36.
Let's beat that dead horse! You know I'm not a member of NWS Scotty, so I'm sorry my reports won't carry all the nuances of a seasoned forecaster - however, I posted this for people who were interested in the hardiness of these plants when situations that I had spoke of earlier arise, not to start a nit picking contest over what was experienced at what temperature! And I'm done with this..
well..I'm sorry you seem to be offended by the laws of physics..I cant help that.
and its not a "nit picking contest"..its just simple facts.
you were confused by what I was saying..I was confused by what you were saying..
so we worked it out..now we know.
Found your temp data:
(I love that site!) "officially" Carmichael, CA hit 34 degrees on April 8 and 9.
but look at the dew point chart..it shows the dew point, and the temp, intersecting on those two nights, right about 30-32 degrees! and 34 is only the "official" reading, taken somewhere near where you live, but not directly in your back yard! so its totally possible that you were at 32 or lower..and had frost.
the only thing you didnt have was 36 degrees and frost!
so you were right about everything..except the temp..no biggie.
and im still right that 36 degrees, by itself, is harmless to VFTs and Sarracenia.
(my plants spend 4 months at 34-35 every winter)
now its all clear..
and actually, this "nit picking" is very important, in the context of the educational value of this thread..because its important that people understand that it *can* maybe be dangerous to leave your plants outside if its going to fall below 32 degrees..or..if its only as light frost, its probably not that big of a deal in reality. (which was the original point..light frost = not a big deal)..but its perfectly fine to leave them outside at 36, because they wont freeze..that is very important and valuable to know in this hobby..
Personally I make the "cut off" temp in the forecast about 27..(maybe 29)..if the weatherman says 27 or lower, I move the plants into the garage for the night..if he says 30, I leave them out...some people use 32 as the cutoff..some even use 35 or 40..thats all fine..but its important to understand the reasons behind those decisions..and for a big collection, moving plants can be a major undertaking..so having "your number" is something you need to make a decision on..if you have a huge collection, making the cut-off number 40 degrees is a big waste of effort!
Oh noes, 80 to 36 Try 80 to 31 and some snow showers :P
I think it's funny that "tougher than you think" is still applied to carnivorous plants. Yeah maybe tropical plants are a bit sensitive to things like humidity, but north american plants are really hardy. Yeah they require special water and soil, but what other plants can thrive in nutrient free soil? Carnivorous plants are hardy in ways that normal plants aren't and the other way around. It's trading off strengths.
I do agree with Scotty, a light frost won't hurt much, however if you know you might get a frost you should probably cover your plants just incase. Any extra protection, while maybe not 100% nessisary, will help, and increase the chance of a healthy plant.
^ yeah..I agree its probably better to cover, or move, your plants if its forecast to be below 32 degrees *at all*..just to play it safe..personally, when I see 30 degrees in the forecast, I dont do anything..but thats just a risk im willing to take..and weatherpeople and forecasts arent always spot-on! when they say "overnight low of 30" in reality that could be anywhere between 25 to 35! So I could be risking a much heavier frost or freeze than I anticipated.
So yeah..its a judgment call. For someone just starting out, probably the best advice would be "35 degrees"..if you see 35 in the forecast, move your plants somewhere sheltered..garage, inside the house, etc..35 might be overkill (on the warm side of the true danger zone) but "better safe than sorry"..
its a good number to start with..