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Thread: Heliamphora sarracenioides "2sg"

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    killerplantsguy's Avatar
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    Heliamphora sarracenioides "2sg"

    Hello all,

    I am growing AW's clone 2sg of H. sarracenioides, and the pitchers are showing a pretty distinct nectar spoon. Has anyone else had a similar experience? I'm supposing this is not the "pure" species.

    Take a look:



    "You cannot depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus" - Mark Twain

    "Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something." - Pancho Villa, last words.

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    i dont do pots. amphirion's Avatar
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    the plant is still relatively young...i wouldnt count it out as a hybrid just yet.
    i've seen individual plants with nectar spoons so big, they practically look like a hood of a S. purpurea...

    remember, the pitchers get up to 6-8 inches tall.
    here is a close up of mine, the 2S clone.
    Last edited by amphirion; 05-10-2011 at 09:19 PM.
    " You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." -Inigo Montoya
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    BigBella's Avatar
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    I have found that the pitchers vary a great deal as the plant matures . . .
    “Sì perché l'autorità dell'opinione di mille nelle scienze non val per una scintilla di ragione di un solo . . ."

    -- Galileo "Biff" Galilei

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    killerplantsguy's Avatar
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    Thank you. I wasn't aware of the variation.
    "You cannot depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus" - Mark Twain

    "Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something." - Pancho Villa, last words.

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    RL7836's Avatar
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    By coincidence - this species was mentioned in yesterday's chatbox - Av noted that Wistuba did circulate some hybrids a while back... Also - if the 'sg' in '2sg' stands for seedgrown - it could be almost anything (since it's unique).
    All the best,
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    Av8tor1's Avatar
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    I agree with BB, pitchers can vary quite a bit.... however having said that, going by the description and published in-situ observations I think its probably a natural hybrid...

    First the description:


    Carnivorous Plant Newsletter
    Volume 34, Number 1, March 2005, pages 4 - 6; Front Cover


    Heliamphora sarracenioides, a New Species of
    Heliamphora (Sarraceniaceae) from Venezuela

    Thomas Carow • Münnerstadt • Germany
    Andreas Wistuba • Mannheim • Germany
    Peter Harbarth • Dossenheim • Germany

    Keywords: new taxa: Heliamphora sarracenioides, Venezuela.

    Received: 9 March 2004

    Introduction

    During our last expedition to some of the table mountains in Venezuela in January 2004 we discovered a species of Heliamphora (Sarraceniaceae) that has unique characteristics (see Front Cover, and Figures 1-4), and hence is described as a new species here.

    Heliamphora sarracenioides Carow, Wistuba & Harbarth spec. nov.

    Caudex ramosus; foliis rosulatis; amphoris 20-30 cm longis, tubulosis, basin versus infundibuliformibus, in parte media ventricosis, et in parte superiore obconicis, ore versus angustatis extus glabris, parte superiore interiore glabris; appendicibus triangularibus, 2.5-3.5 cm latis, 4-5 cm longis, basi non constrictis.

    Inflorescentiis 2-3-floris, racemosis, ad 60 cm longis; flores nutantes; pedicellis 5 cm longis; petalis 4 oblongo-lanceolatis, albidis vel pallide-roseis, 4-4.5 cm longis; staminibus 10, 1-serialibus, filamentis 5-6 mm longis; antheris oblongo-lanceolatis, 7-8 mm longis; ovario valde tomentoso; stylo glabro; stigmate 3 lobato; seminibus fuscis, oblongis, ca. 1.5 mm longis, testa conspicue membranaceo-alata.

    Rhizomes branching. Pitchers infundibulate in the lower half, ventricose in the middle and conical in the upper third, slightly narrowing towards the mouth; pitchers 20 to 30 cm long, 3-5 cm wide in the middle; upper part of the pitchers 2.5-3.5 cm wide; the uppermost quarter of the pitcher completely hairless but with scattered glands on the inner side. Underneath this zone the hairy zone starts abruptly. Lid emerging directly from the back of the pitcher mouth without any constriction, 3-4 cm wide and 4-5 cm long, often exceeding the pitcher mouth in width, triangular, upright, ending with a tip that is bent back slightly; sometimes the lids are bent forwards, overarching the mouth of the pitcher; the inner side of the lid fairly evenly scattered with glands, up to 0.2 mm across. Most plants have pitchers that are colored almost entirely red, however plants with greenish pitchers, some veined deeply red, were found as well. Inflorescence up to 60 cm long, with 2-3 flowers, peduncle entirely glabrous, pedicels 5 cm long. All carry bracts, the lowest often is transformed into a rudimentary pitcher. Tepals lanceolate, 4-4.5 cm long, 1.7-2,2 cm wide, white to whitish-pink; approximately 10 stamens in 1 series, filaments 5-6 mm long, anthers oblong lanceolate, 7-8 mm long, 1.5 mm wide; ovary 3 celled, pubescent, style glabrous; seed approximately 1.5 mm long, compressed, ovate, irregularly winged.

    Specimens examined

    Heliamphora sarracenioides: South Venezuela, Gran Sabana, Estado Bolivar; Wistuba, Carow & Harbarth No. 01/04/s1, holotype, flowering plant (VEN). This specimen we prepared shows a plant typical of the population that we observed.

    Distribution

    Heliamphora sarracenioides was discovered on a Venezuelan table mountain of the northern part of Gran Sabana. The population we found is healthy, and consists of many plants. (We observed approximately 200 individual plants, but did not attempt to make an accurate assessment of the total plant population.) Since the population is apparently restricted to a fairly small and isolated area, we believe that it is fairly vulnerable. For reasons of conservation we decided not to present exact data on the location, or disclose what other Heliamphora species are found in the immediate area of Heliamphora sarracenioides.

    Related species

    The structure of the flowers with comparably large anthers in one series implicates a close relationship to Heliamphora heterodoxa and Heliamphora folliculata. The structure of the pitcher however, with a glabrous zone beneath the rim, separates it well from H. heterodoxa which has a more infundibulate pitcher mouth and an upper zone with a hairy inner side of the pitcher wall. Both the evenly distributed, relatively large glands in the lid, and the shape of this lid itself clearly separates H. sarracenioides from both Heliamphora heterodoxa and H. folliculata



    It has now been widely published that the location is Ptari Tepui... and some later expiditions have observed various hybrids between H. sarracenioides and H. heterodoxa

    Ptari heterodoxa example Ref: http://www.heliamphora.de/01b021930e...8f0a7df12.html

    IMHO, this image is a closer match to the official description


    ".....the uppermost quarter of the pitcher completely hairless but with scattered glands on the inner side. Underneath this zone the hairy zone starts abruptly. Lid emerging directly from the back of the pitcher mouth without any constriction, 3-4 cm wide and 4-5 cm long, often exceeding the pitcher mouth in width, triangular, upright, ending with a tip that is bent back slightly; sometimes the lids are bent forwards, overarching the mouth of the pitcher; the inner side of the lid fairly evenly scattered with glands, up to 0.2 mm across.....

    ....The structure of the pitcher however, with a glabrous zone beneath the rim, separates it well from H. heterodoxa which has a more infundibulate pitcher mouth and an upper zone with a hairy inner side of the pitcher wall. Both the evenly distributed, relatively large glands in the lid, and the shape of this lid itself clearly separates H. sarracenioides from both Heliamphora heterodoxa and H. folliculata....."


    but who knows, so many shades of gray
    Last edited by Av8tor1; 05-11-2011 at 10:01 AM.

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    BigBella's Avatar
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    I definitely agree with Wistuba and Carow's original description of the plant; so too Butch's opinion above. Something else that I have also observed is how radically different H. sarracenioides (even among Heliamphora, which are notorious for this) the pitchers appear under different lighting conditions. Sometimes under bright light, some rudiment of a nectar spoon becomes visible; but is completely absent under shaded conditions . . .
    “Sì perché l'autorità dell'opinione di mille nelle scienze non val per una scintilla di ragione di un solo . . ."

    -- Galileo "Biff" Galilei

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