03-17-2014, 06:07 AM
You may be right, I did take your feedback to heart and appreciate it.
Originally Posted by MarcS
It is the reason I had waited 18 months to even ask Andreas to have a look at the pictures.
I did not approach Andreas demanding a replacement, I approached him with the pictures and asked him his opinion.
He felt something was indeed wrong and offered a hand picked replacement, and of course I accepted.
03-17-2014, 07:52 AM
No, I don't have 10 years experience in growing Heliamphora minor var. pilosa and I also don't grow 100 clones! I just have 4 different clones for 2 years now. "Always" was a bit farfetched and I also have to say that there are some clones which seem to have just few hairs (sometimes the next pitcher is even nearly hairless of unknown reason!) - so there might be a non stable genetic issue. But two of my Auyan clones have really long and dense amount of hairs, but the very first adult pitchers are totaly glabrous outside! This is also true for my third one from Auyan, which is less hairy in general!
Originally Posted by Maiden
But never the less these plants are H. minor var. pilosa, if super hairy or just less hairy.
And as far is I could follow your pictures you got the plant already with adult pitchers late in the last year, right? So Av8tor1 really had to grow up a plant which was just in the phase becoming adult. I would guess that you haven't seen the first adult leafs on your plant - so please don't talk of experience please...
Av8tor1's plant never had a fully adult pitcher - it just doesn't grow so well in his conditions, which seem to be obviously great for all the rest of his Heliamphora.
I also encounter that for my H. minor BB and I guess most H. hispida in cultivation are acting the same - there might be epigenetic modifications during TC which cause that effect. But I'm not a geneticist nor a epigeneticist, just a boring molecular biologist...
I just got a bit upset first, when I read that Av8tor1 got a replacement even though his plants seems to grow fine and also because I told him that the pitchers will become hairy outside.
Originally Posted by Av8tor1
Since Andreas got many negative feedback in several forums, I got a bit feed up with that because he is a great guy and always tries to find a way to make his costumers happy with what they get! But in this case I was a bit too fast in judging, so I really apoligize to Av8tor1 for that!!!
03-17-2014, 09:26 AM
I can't speak for the other forums but this thread has shown great support for Andreas and his willingness to fix problems that were beyond his control with no fuss. He will be sending my replacement in April.
Originally Posted by MarcS
03-17-2014, 01:48 PM
First, as i can see on butch picture, his plant had 3 adult pitchers + 1 juvenile at reception. My plant had only 3 adult ones.
Originally Posted by MarcS
Secondly, where did you read i have a lot of experience?
I just said that you cannot say 'the first pitcher is alway hairless' because you dont have enough experience with this specie, like everyone here.
I hope you understand that growers still experiment growing technics for this 'new' specie, even andreas.
The pilosas ppl grow here are from andreas seedlings, so many differents genetics exist. The fact that andreas offer butch and don a replacement plant just prove my point.
So please, wait a couple more years growing this specie before saying 'the first adult pitcher is always hairless' because its ridiculous.
Andreas is a nice person, and his decision was right.
And Jealousy is a bad thing my friend
Last edited by Maiden; 03-17-2014 at 02:07 PM.
03-17-2014, 03:05 PM
I don't want to take this much further, but it seems that I have to give one last post on that - I'm really sorry!
I think I know Andreas well enough to know why he sends a replacement and I don't questions his disicion! Why should I?
You can't compare the adult pitchers from your plant with those from butch, when he got his plant - you have a different stage of adult leafs on your specimen! As you know for sure there are up to three diiferent stages of adult leafs.
I already told that I didn't choose my words correctly and "always" was indeed not the right choice! But first I didn't address you at all (just Av8tor) and second of all you just start telling stuff which is not true...
Andreas has no problems growing them since I have seen many pots in his private collection with very nice hairy pitchers - he really has perfect conditions. This species is not really more demanding than other Heliamphora - there might be generall questions/experiment for some growers, like what is the best soil to grow Heliamphora, etc.. What happens IV is a different thing where I have no info if it's easy or hard to grow!
I don't need to be jealous my friend, belief me - I've everything and more I ever wanted to grow successfully! The reason for my first post I mentioned already.
I just wanted to share my experience with this species since I grow quite some fully adult specimens and also raise them from seeds as well...
It just seems to be a small misunderstanding or misinterpretation from my side from Av8tor1's post and I really don't want to comment on that again! I apologized to Av8tor1 and that's all I can do and I guess he didn't took it too serious or personal (at least I hope so)...
And Don: I totally agree with you! I didn't mean this post (neither in particular this forum!). ;-)
03-17-2014, 04:16 PM
"I don't want to take this much further"
-I guest its stronger than you right?
"I think I know Andreas well enough to know why he sends a replacement"
-Nice to know an Andreas's close friend
"As you know for sure there are up to three diiferent stages of adult leafs"
-No i didnt know that, any serious reference on internet for this? im curious to read more. For me an adult pitcher is an adult pitcher. On a very young plant, the adult ones are just smaller. Anyway my mexican friend have hair on the FIRST little adult pitcher.
"I already told that I didn't choose my words correctly and "always" was indeed not the right choice"
-Next time choose the right one, because its hard to understand. And my English is far to be perfect, so its harder for me.
You said:"My plant is extremely hairy, but the first adult pitchers are always hairless outside!" And this was not true. That why i react because its a false statement. Im sure you can understand my position.
"But first I didn't address you at all"
-Are you trying to say i cannot reply to a post in a public forum?
"Andreas has no problems growing them since I have seen many pots in his private collection with very nice hairy pitchers - he really has perfect conditions"
-Perfect conditions are impossible to reach my friend, even for andreas. But i agree he is very close.
"I don't need to be jealous my friend"
Your reaction prove it
"I just wanted to share my experience with this species"
-No, you enter this thread with a massive upset post, not sharing your experience.
Its a public forum, and before your intervention, everything was fine and smooth.
"It just seems to be a small misunderstanding or misinterpretation from my side "
"I grow quite some fully adult specimens and also raise them from seeds as well"
-Like many other growers, nothing special there.
Marc, i know you are an experienced grower and a nice person.
I didnt want to upset you, but what you said was not true, even if you are experienced, more than me. Now i know that you chose the wrong sentence.
I hope we will be friend in a near futur, im not a bad guy.
Last edited by Maiden; 03-17-2014 at 04:30 PM.
03-17-2014, 04:20 PM
We, knights of the fuzzy sock are indeed a passionate bunch... Marc, Francois, DonH, BigBella, et. al.,
Marc, while I admit your statement took me back at first... the explanation and apology is more than enough.
I too have come to the defence of AW when I felt his was being unfairly maligned (on this very forum many moons ago)
Let's just get the thread back on track and post some more nice pics and tips please
03-17-2014, 04:57 PM
Camelot is a silly place...
03-17-2014, 06:52 PM
LOL av, and andreas hold the cup?
By the way, im curious, do you have to pay the shipping or its 100% free of charge?
Last edited by Maiden; 03-17-2014 at 08:08 PM.
03-18-2014, 01:12 AM
Let's get back on track! ;-)
Originally Posted by Av8tor1
@Maiden: No, I don't have a serious reference for that. But if you have grown for example pulchella or ionasii from juvenile plants until they get fully adult with the typical pitcher shape, you may have seen that also the adult leafs change a lot in shape and other features like the bristles and hairs inside. H. ionasii as well as H. pulchella first have a more pronounced short indumentum (with no or few short bristles) on the inside of the first adult pitchers. Fully adult leafs later just have bristles and no (or lets say reduced) indumentum. Also the nectar spoon is changing shape and/or "position" slithly. Hope I could still convince you also without reference...?
(If not I could maybe add some pictures to illustrate it a bit!?)