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Sudden issue with cephalotus watering methods

So Ive had two cephalotus for a while now. One for over a year and the other for about 5 months. The one I've had for 5 months seems to have developed a dislike of water. I've been watering them every 3-4 days every since I got them and they've put out new pitchers and done relatively well. But now the one I have had for 5 months, which is also a HG and was quite clumpy has lost several pitchers the last two months. Really don't understand the problem because it shows signs it needs water like drooping lids and soil dry below the surface. Then I wwater it even lightly and I tend to get yellowish pitchers. Doesn't make any sense to me because the other one does just fine like this and is right now putting out three large adult pitchers in Identical climate conditions.

Was thinking the pitchers it has are probably old.... Does this tend to happen with age? It is putting out quite a few new pitchers to replace what it loses but none that I think are going to be adults at this point. Can usually tell by the ribs. Hopefully it is normal. I suppose I am wondering whether my ideas of when it needs watering is correct. I do know they don't want or need a lot of it and I never use a water tray for it.
 
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Odd that, I sit my Cephalotus in trays of water from April to Novenber most years and I find it saves a lot of messing about with watering regimes. And yes I've had them sitting in water over winter too :D
I've never understood the 'keep them on the dry side' brigade. It seems odd to me to treat what is essentially a bog plant that way.
 
Keep them in a tray of water and don't water from above.
 
What is your soil mix ?

The tray method killed my German Giant in the intense heat of summer. It was quite a tall pot but the mix was LFS + perlite and I believe LFS broke down in the heat because I had the same issue with a nepenthes planted in the same mix. I didn't have this issue with any other mix in summer so just a heads up if you're using LFS as well.
 
They're both in largish square pots. The larger one I recently put I to a new soil mix cause I hated what it came with. It's now the same as the smaller one: 2:1:1, peat, perlite, silica sand. Laid loosely with loving care.

So... Put them in water trays? Idk. They REALLY seem to hate water.

Since I posted this, I have moved them into a more natural filtered light setting on a sun.y window. Things were better for a while... Until I watered them for the first time. I had soil moisture indicators telling me I was correct; the soil was almost dry. I watered. Now losing two pitchers between the two plants. :'(

I really do not understand these plants... Lol. My nepenthes and sarracenia are so easy....

Edit: also, my nepenthes is in LFS, orchid bark and perlite and I top water once per week and its as happy as can be. But its also in an intermediate to highland tank under lights and not sunlight.
 
Hey Gigantea,

I've been growing all my ceph cultivars in 100% LFS for awhile now. I experimented a lot with peat mixes but found they clump too densely. I use the tray method with a layer of pebbles. I'll fill it until the lower 1/4" of the pots are waterlogged and let it soak/evaporate until I fill it again. I always avoid directly watering any plants. Plus the tray method helps if you travel frequently! As a side note I grow mine indoors where the temperature never travels beyond 85 so I've never had an issue with LFS breaking down.

The whole "keep them on the dry side" is because a lot of people are concerned with sudden death syndrome. They believe cephs easily suffer from root rot where there are no warning signs. But yes I agree with fredg, cephs naturally grow at the edges of bogs. Having grown them with slight waterlogging for the past 5 years or so I have yet to experience a sudden death.

And you're correct, the lids drop because of low humidity. If your soil mix dries it won't supply humidity around the plant. I like to spray mine nightly to boost humidity and because the LFS always stays wet my lids stay up. Can't really comment on the yellow pitchers. I've had them a few times when new pitchers attempt to grow under mature pitchers. I accredited it to lack of sunlight and unfortunately they tend to never make it :\

I think you should try an experiment with the tray method coupled with the occasional spraying. Hopefully some of this helps :)
 
The top soil may look dry, just make sure it has good drainage and not water logged at the bottom. That what happened to mine....
Check out this link:
http://www.terraforums.com/forums/showthread.php?129931-Ceph-pics

I know some people suggest not top watering cephs, been watering that way since 2001 and never had any issues with my plants. Pics in the link above should prove that.
 
Felgecko: orgot to mention I have a layer of LFS and pea pebbles at the bottom of both. Drainage should be good. I looked at that link and that first pic pretty much looks like my cephs. I don't know what I can do to male it any more airy in the soil... It's so light I poke it and it goes. I can easily stab a finger into it.

Mikey, I do have some seedlings I can experiment with... Guess I will put them in a tray and see what happens before trting It with the bigger ones. I don't think I can put then in LFS, it gets too hot here for that. They get up to 90* just in my window. I used to spray mist them but then I read not to if your humidity is high.

I think the Confusion growing these is because no one can agree on anything. And learning from experience is really expensive. <<
 
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Mikey, I do have some seedlings I can experiment with... Guess I will put them in a tray and see what happens before trting It with the bigger ones. I don't think I can put then in LFS, it gets too hot here for that. They get up to 90* just in my window. I used to spray mist them but then I read not to if your humidity is high.
. <<

If you are growing on a windowsill that gets hot, I hope your growing container is WHITE, because if the soil mass heats up at all, you will have very unhappy Cephalotus in no time. They want full sun (if possible), but cool damp roots, so you have to avoid heating the soil at all costs. I grow in heavy white glazed ceramic pots, which prevent the soil from heating up.
 
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Well, they are in plastic... That hest exposure doesn't last long and I think some of that best is my probe exaggerating when the direct sun hits it. Based on experience in kitchens I would say its 85* when I out my hand in that area.

I did have them both under lights for a
while, but one starting looking unhappy cause I can't get the humidity high enough close to the lights. Got lids drooping. Think the light is too mucj for them so I moved them to a SW window that gets good sun from about 2-6pm.

Perhaps the heat and moisture was the issue?
 
  • #12
Well, they are in plastic... That hest exposure doesn't last long and I think some of that best is my probe exaggerating when the direct sun hits it.

Perhaps the heat and moisture was the issue?

OK, but what color are the plastic pots?? If they are black, brown or dark green, that is not ideal. It can lead to excessive heating of the soil, which is what really matters. These are basically swamp-dwelling plants, and they have a nearly continuous seeping of cool water through their root zone, so keeping them on the dry side is not the answer.

If you haven't already read the detailed cultivation notes on this page, I suggest you do.
 
  • #13
Hm, so I wonder if the problem was that they got too dry... And now gettimg wet again Is hurting them. Pots are dark green.... I have never seen any white ones for sale I can buy.

http://www.foxoles.dsl.pipex.com/cephalotusfollim.html

It can't be that hard... I have no way of really doing that. o_O

All I know for sure is that if I lose these... I am adding cephalotus to my "blacklist" of plants to not grow again. << So far I have Heliamphora and the genus Gibbaeum on there. Hehe.
 
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  • #14
Its difficult to find plastic pots in white, which is why I opted for ceramics. If the soil got warm AND dry at the same time, that could kill the roots in hours, and if that happens, you will have a very hard time reviving the plant. Cool, damp roots at all times!
 
  • #15
Hm, okay. Think I should probably acclimate them to the tank my nepenthes is in then... That one is a very controlled max of 77* during the day and receives a larger night drop. Also has the humidity it may need.
 
  • #16
I come with pics:

IMAG0558_zpsfddefb95.jpg

IMAG0559_zps6c8e3126.jpg


Larger one is harder to see the damage on... But that biggest open pitcher's lid began to yellow last night. There's also a smaller one that is basically rotted near the back right beside the large closed pitcher.
 
  • #17
Hahaha I think that's what you'll come to understand with any CP. There is no "best" method, just a lot of different methods that work. Elgecko's plants look fantastic and I can't argue with those results.

I guess I was a little confused on how dry you let it get. Regardless of whether you use the tray method you never want to let the soil completely dry out. Do you know what your humidity is when the temps reach 90? I find they don't enjoy temps beyond ~85 but they've definitely survived in multiple 100+ days over the course of a week during the summer. I would definitely experiment around with the tray method, various media, and putting a few in your Nepenthes tank - find out what's best for you!
 
  • #18
The humidity tends to be between 70-80%. I think I'll move one back into the nep tank although initially I had it in there a few months when I first got it and never got any carnivorous leaves from it until I moved it under stronger light. I might have had it close enough either. Any idea what the ideal lumen level for a ceph is cause I have a lux meter?
 
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  • #19
If the top photo is any indicator, your soil is way too dry ( the moss appears to be bone dry!). You should consider using a mix that contains close to 30% coarse sand (that's what I use). Have you read about Charles Brewer's mix? He has been growing this genus for decades and is very successful at it.

By the way, I've had no trouble growing Cephalotus by watering from above, but I believe you have to have conditions exactly right if you do this. This is my oldest plant (two years in my care, from a wee starter plant) as it looks today:
20130511-085736.jpg
 
  • #20
The humidity tends to be between 70-80%. I think I'll move one back into the nep tank although initially I had it in there a few months when I first got it and never got any carnivorous leaves from it until I moved it under stronger light. I might have had it close enough either. Any idea what the ideal lumen level for a ceph is cause I have a lux meter?

Cephalotus follicularis typically grows in a range of lighting situations, from blazing full sun, to dappled shade. That should be all you need to know to make an assessment :)

Oh, and were you aware that this plant responds to seasonal triggers that determine whether it produces trap leaves or non-trap leaves? So, if you witnessed your plant making plain leaves for a time, it was likely because your growing conditions provided a trigger to tell the plant it was winter, and to go into its semi-dormant growth phase. Moving the plant around from location to location, and changing its light and day length can trigger this response. Just FYI. (Hint: leave it in one place for six months or more in order to let it establish a relationship with those conditions. Changing a plant's environment frequently is not going to do it any favors)
 
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