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S. minor vs. Okee Giant and anthocyanin free...

I have some questions I hope that this fine community can help me to address.

The first is how do I differentiate between normal S. minor and the Okee giants? The minors on my land are regularly over two feet tall, but I am not very close to the Okefenokee.

The second question I have is how do identify if my plants are anthocyanin free?

As I've mentioned in several previous posts, I have acreage that I care for; some parts of which have either overgrown or have never been properly broken and explored. As I made my way into some unbroken brush, I found a plant that I didn't previously know about. It was about two feet tall and completely lacked any red coloration.

How do I determine if this plant is special or if it is just poorly pigmented because it is growing I'm the shade?

Thanks all,

Rob
 
Anthocyanin free = little to no red coloration.

Okee Giant is skinny and taller on average.
 
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Thanks. Based on your info, I might just have an anthocyanin free Okee Giant.

Thoughts?

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10406903_10152496731084417_375656502030515547_n.jpg


And a "normal" plant from my land. Both plants have leaves that stand about two feet tall.

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Hard to say without a closer look at the rhizome. Plants grown in deep shade can often appear to lack any red coloration. Anthocyanin free plants will have absolutely no red coloration on them anywhere at all.
 
Hard to say without a closer look at the rhizome. Plants grown in deep shade can often appear to lack any red coloration. Anthocyanin free plants will have absolutely no red coloration on them anywhere at all.

Thanks for the input!

How would I go about checking the rhizome? Dig it up? I'd rather not do that but I'm open to the possibility if I can do it without killing the plant.

Do you suppose that these are Okees or just very large 'normal' minors? I've seen a bunch of normal minors elsewhere here in Florida and they're never anywhere near as large as these.


EDIT- I'm in Nassau County Florida about 20 miles due east of the Okefenokee.
 
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You can probably scrape back the soil enough to get a good look at the rhizome but, as stated above if the plant is growing in the shade it may be tough to tell.

S.minor var. okeefenokeensis is (as far as I know) confined to the Okeefenokee swamp area. Possibly another giant form ? How far are these plants from the Okeefenokee ?

Also, some shots with a tape measure beside it would help with size verification.
 
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You can probably scrape back the soil enough to get a good look at the rhizome but, as stated above if the plant is growing in the shade it may be tough to tell.

S.minor var. okeefenokeensis is (as far as I know) confined to the Okeefenokee swamp area. Possibly another giant form ? How far are these plants from the Okeefenokee ?

Also, some shots with a tape measure beside it would help with size verification.

I'm in Nassau County, Florida about 20 miles due east of the Okefenokee. The back portion of my grounds are in the Big Funk Swamp.

I have a crappy cell phone pic with my machete for quick reference, but I'll get you a pic with a tape measure tomorrow or the day after whilst I try to check the rhizome. I'm not going back there again without bathing in Deet first lol.

Here's the shot. The machete is 27" from tip to tip with a few inches obviously stuck in the dirt for these pics. I know it's not ideal, but it can give you an idea.

EDIT- these pics are from yesterday. I cleared out the sawgrass for the pics with my good camera today.

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That is so cool that you can just slog out there any time you need your S. minor fix lol! Thanks for sharing! Keep your eyes peeled for sundews and Butterworts.:0o:
 
That is so cool that you can just slog out there any time you need your S. minor fix lol! Thanks for sharing! Keep your eyes peeled for sundews and Butterworts.:0o:

I have tons upon tons of P. caerulea. In the front yard that is cut but not sodded, they absolutely thrive with how I don't allow the grasses to get over about 8" tall. We used to have several species of sundew, and I strongly suspect that they're still there, but they're tiny little red things that are extremely hard to find.

I used to have S. flava and S. psittacina as well, but I've not seen them in over a decade. They were near the back of the property that can no longer be accessed due to extremely heavy growth.

I'm currently involved with FDACS to attempt to use Florida's longleaf pine ecosystem incentive program to clear and re-plant the acreage. This land was originally longleaf pine savanna, then it was cleared and used to grow several generations of loblolly, then it was used as a pig farm for a few years (which flopped before it ruined the soil) and then it was sold as rural properties. The ecosystem is still here, but it is severely distressed. I'm going to do my best to restore it!
 
  • #10
http://www.sarracenia.com/faq/faq5532.html

Don Schnell has given a prescription for how to differentiate the two varieties, which should only be used on flowering sized plants growing in full sun. The height of the plant, divided by the "diameter," is about 8 for S. minor var. minor, but it is 15 for S. minor var. okefenokeensis. I set the word "diameter" in quotes because the measurement you are taking is a little strange. First, look at the pitcher in profile. Notice the rim of the pitcher mouth is tilted downward, as in this photograph. Orient your ruler at the same slant as the pitcher rim, and measure the length from the front of the pitcher mouth, where the mouth joins the ala, to the back of the pitcher hood. Got it? If not, refer to the original publication by Schnell (2002b).

20 miles would be in the ballpark - certainly for hybridization and wildlife to transport seeds.
 
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  • #11
I have tons upon tons of P. caerulea. In the front yard that is cut but not sodded, they absolutely thrive with how I don't allow the grasses to get over about 8" tall.

:pics:
 
  • #12
I doubt the plants are antho free, though as mentioned by others they may look like it. At the very base of the pitchers, where they meet the rhizome, normal plants with little color will show red in the pitcher attachments and the tips of new leaves growing out. Antho-free ones will tend to look almost fluorescent or even nearly translucent at the base.
As for being Okee plants, 20 miles could well be within range for transported seeds, but certainly you'll need to see growth once they're getting full sun, and compare it with normal minors. Even young okee plants will have pitchers half the width relative to height compared to normal plants.
 
  • #13
They are certainly too tall to be typical minors but as N a N says could be historic population or transported seed.

If you look down on the rhizome there is normally some red colour at the base of the leaf close to the rhizome visible even in plants that have grown green because of shade, If you cant see any red pigment, remove the adjacent grass and let the sun in you will know in a week or so whether it is anthocyanin free or not.

Cheers
Steve
 
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