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Cephalotus ' Dudley Watts ' or Cephalotus " Double Ribbed" ? Which one?
- Thread starter DND
- Start date
If you remove all the emotions from this thead this is the real issue, there is no way to get a positive ID on most of these Ceph variations without a paper trail. From the threads linked in this post the paper trail went bad. Either that or we have a 'Giant, Dudley Watts, Double-Ribbed' Ceph out there. It would not be unheard of for people to add more nouns to a name, Emu Point going to Emu Point Giant, vigorous going to vigorous clumping.
I'd say maybe a 1/2 dozen clones could actually be ID'd in a group, some of those would require special measure to ID. Once that paper trail is tainted all is lost.
As for the E-bay ad, well buying a Ceph on E-bay is just like buying a baseball card, I hope you have a good paper trail with it. Ask questions and if things don't seem right don't bid. Anything listed as a "left nut" is correct, 'left nut' would be an issue
Coincidentally, I was approached about those "Emu Point" plants a few weeks back, in terms of supplying a paper trail. I had originally supplied a bunch of those seedlings to Dennis Hastings, some years ago, when we were exchanging a number of Cephalotus. There had never been any claim about their potential size; only, that they were site-specific and colorful. They were quite tiny at the time . . .
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The Emu point has always grown very well for me. Anyway here is the quote about it, pulled from a few threads/boards.
Cephalotus follicularis location Emu Point, Albany AU (Also know as Emu Point and/or Emu Point Giant) -
"Quote Originally Posted by BigBella
The three "Emu Point" plants that I had provided Dennis Hastings, originated from leaf pulls that had either been grown on compost; or else, developed in vitro from that same tissue, from a single, wild-collected plant, taken legally (for the benefit of the inquisition that occasionally rears its head on TF) from the border of a parkland and cattle-grazing area. Some seed had also been collected; but those plants were never part of that initial shipment. Apparently, there had been some confusion there.
Many of my plants have produced larger than "average" pitchers; though I have still had "typical" plants, from time to time, produce 2.5-3" leaves -- more a function of age and health, in my opinion, than the provenance of any particular cultivar or clone . . ."
From Dennis
"I have added this plant as an unusual clone because of the history it was given. This plant was seed grown from a mother plant originating in the Emu point region of southern Australia. It has been said the parent plant produced pitchers as large as three inches. Since this has been seed grown, there in no way to emphatically state this plant will grow up to be a giant also. I will keep this plant updated in a set of images to let you know how it does.
I have since learned from the person I received the plant from, that the pitchers on the seed grown plants get to about 2.5 inches tall."
I "believe" Dennis added the "giant" to the end of Emu Point but its just a guess from the information I've been able to collect.
That brings back memories. Those seedlings went out later, after that initial shipment, along with a few vials of plants from rhizomal and leaf tissue from those first plants; and, if there was anyone, who could make a giant of a Cephalotus, it had to be Dennis . . .
I don't know what became of those later seedlings, dozens of them -- plants by then, after his passing . . .
It was a nice plant.
I don't know what became of those later seedlings, dozens of them -- plants by then, after his passing . . .
It was a nice plant.
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Thread about his plants after his passing http://icps.proboards.com/thread/5789/dennis-hastings
I've seen a few of them going out through E-bay so they are still getting around. I know I've sent out easily 100 Emu Point leaf pulls, plus whatever plants over the years so that one should be in good supply. Easily the single best grower for me.
Hello Big Bella,
there are some questions in CPUK regarding this thread here, so would you answer please?
Here is the link to CPUK : http://www.cpukforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=55723#entry372446
Thanks.
there are some questions in CPUK regarding this thread here, so would you answer please?
Here is the link to CPUK : http://www.cpukforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=55723#entry372446
Thanks.
Crapola, this was years ago, in the early oughts; and the sundry packages had, I am quite sure, a Sheffield return address. I live in San Francisco and I am not aware of every extravagant plant collection or collector -- there are many, I was surprised to discover; and after Tony Paroubek's nightmares, people tend to keep rather quiet. I think that the name of the grower was Semitic -- Isaacson, if that is helpful, in any way. It never occurred to me, back then, that there would be such a ridiculous obsession attached to funny little ornamental plants. I'll try to dig up the photos that were provided . . .
DND, it's time hit the rakija and move out of your mother's basement . . .
DND, it's time hit the rakija and move out of your mother's basement . . .
Au contraire.
(I thought I'd throw in a little foreign language too. Impressed? I'm not.)We are seeing very little evidence of provenance. Plus we have admission of mixing up of clonal material and misidentification.
Well done! You almost succeeded in impressing me with your knowledge of the Bulgarian " rakija " but seems it is for adults like me, not for you lol
I agree with you and there wouldn't be any if you wasn't selling the plant under misleading names...
I have sold hundreds, if not close to a thousand plants over the years -- tissue-cultured, seed grown, divisions, etc -- and have yet to receive a single complaint; and my only big misstep was some wild-collected seed grown N. macrophylla, back in 2000, which ended up being N. x trusmadiensis; but the buyers were made aware of that potential risk; and none were ever returned. Try buying a true trusmadiensis nowadays.
In short, my plants are guaranteed . . .
Raki is good rot-gut; but I always preferred and grew up with ouzo . . .
In short, my plants are guaranteed . . .
Raki is good rot-gut; but I always preferred and grew up with ouzo . . .
It appears that you cannot supply provenance on your plants. Cephalotus as you well know can become any clonal name you care to give and as RSS will agree it could never be proven otherwise.
You have used one photo and given it 4 different names so far on fora and ebay. You have used another to illustrate at least two different clones on ebay. I'm not even trawling the net to find these. is it any wonder we question the validity of your plants?
You have used one photo and given it 4 different names so far on fora and ebay. You have used another to illustrate at least two different clones on ebay. I'm not even trawling the net to find these. is it any wonder we question the validity of your plants?
Paul, had I not been bored out of my skull yesterday, waiting for perishables from FEDEX, I probably wouldn't even have responded; but my business partner, who is traveling overseas, kept egging me on, laughing like a maniac.
I was just informed by a friend that the plant has already sold, in the midst of all of this, and is wholly guaranteed. Should it be anything but what I say it is, I'll gladly buy it back -- shipping both ways; eating any charges; the whole nine yards. It'd be a welcomed novelty; I've never had to do it . . .
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I have a quick question for you RSS as you have brought up Enu Point. It is a location plant as are all others, they have to come from somewhere, but do you know from what location? To reiterate what has been said by a reliable Australian source and veteran of many Cephalotus field trips. There are no Cephalotus at Emu Point.
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The info provided above is all I was able to find out about it, I did not collect the plant and/or seeds so I have no first hand knowledge and can only pass along what I have been told and by who.
It should be labeled as a location plant.
Could this be a case of there are no Ceph at Emu Point today but 30 years ago there where?
It should be labeled as a location plant.
Could this be a case of there are no Ceph at Emu Point today but 30 years ago there where?
And 5m of google searching gives us this, gotta love the internet.
I know the plant I have labeled as Emu Point is special and is in no way typical, it would take me 1-6 months to re-id it. The only problem is that the 'Big Boy' I have is EXACTLY like the Emu Point and I have to wonder if someone wasn't trying to pull a fast one by labeling the EP as a BB for some quick $$/trades.
"The plants originated from rhizomes from SW Australia -- and were arbitrarily tagged "Emu Point" for the area outside of a park where they had collected almost ten years ago. The plants were characterized by stout, dark pitchers, often exceeding 6.4 cm and were distributed and traded among friends long ago. Whether those plants are those being offered, I have no way of knowing; nor am I involved in any way with their sale. To date there are only two recognized cultivars: "Hummer's Giant" and "Eden Black" . . . "
Source thread http://www.cpukforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=44675
I know the plant I have labeled as Emu Point is special and is in no way typical, it would take me 1-6 months to re-id it. The only problem is that the 'Big Boy' I have is EXACTLY like the Emu Point and I have to wonder if someone wasn't trying to pull a fast one by labeling the EP as a BB for some quick $$/trades.
"The plants originated from rhizomes from SW Australia -- and were arbitrarily tagged "Emu Point" for the area outside of a park where they had collected almost ten years ago. The plants were characterized by stout, dark pitchers, often exceeding 6.4 cm and were distributed and traded among friends long ago. Whether those plants are those being offered, I have no way of knowing; nor am I involved in any way with their sale. To date there are only two recognized cultivars: "Hummer's Giant" and "Eden Black" . . . "
Source thread http://www.cpukforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=44675
Lol don't we all love the internet.
Now unfortunately to my knowledge "Big Boy" was in cultivation long before "Emu Point". I believe "Big Boy" was the first of the so called giants in cultivation outside Australia, it precedes 'Hummer's Giant' by several years. I have seen speculative reports that "German Giant" may have been in cultivation also in the early 1980's but as yet I have not seen a definite confirmed year. If "Big Boy" and "Emu Point" are the same then that would mean that someone has pulled a fast one and taken a "Big Boy" and renamed it "Emu Point" which would scotch the location part at a stroke. Or perhaps the provenance of the compared "Big Boy" was not all it should have been which is the more likely scenario.
Edit Re-reading your first reply, it says the rhizomes of "Emu Point" were collected almost ten years before that posting. 'Eden Black' wasn't registered until 2007 and other cultivars were registered in 2011 so not having a posting date to work on that would mean collection was between 1997 and 2001, considerably less than 30 years.
Now unfortunately to my knowledge "Big Boy" was in cultivation long before "Emu Point". I believe "Big Boy" was the first of the so called giants in cultivation outside Australia, it precedes 'Hummer's Giant' by several years. I have seen speculative reports that "German Giant" may have been in cultivation also in the early 1980's but as yet I have not seen a definite confirmed year. If "Big Boy" and "Emu Point" are the same then that would mean that someone has pulled a fast one and taken a "Big Boy" and renamed it "Emu Point" which would scotch the location part at a stroke. Or perhaps the provenance of the compared "Big Boy" was not all it should have been which is the more likely scenario.
Edit Re-reading your first reply, it says the rhizomes of "Emu Point" were collected almost ten years before that posting. 'Eden Black' wasn't registered until 2007 and other cultivars were registered in 2011 so not having a posting date to work on that would mean collection was between 1997 and 2001, considerably less than 30 years.
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