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Giant Cephalotus follicularis "myth or reality"

  • #21
Hmmmm. Thanks Tamlin for that information. Now I wonder if Cephalotus would grow better in the same soil derived from the ultrabasic intrusive rocks where Darlingtonia grows near Gasquet. Some time ago I brought home a bucket of that soil with associated herbs and grasses and found that both Darlingtonia and P. macroceras nortensis grew better in that than in any mixes I had tried previously. Unfortunately, I have only a single Cephalotus, so it will take some time before I can perform that experiment.
 
  • #22
Coincidentally, the winner of the first NECPS OPA (Outstanding Plant Award) this month was a cephalotus, grown from a leaf cutting in three months with incredibly huge pitchers. When i asked Bill what his secret was, he mentioned that when he got it from it's previous owner, he told him that he always puts a bit of the soil from the parent plant in with the babies, because there is a beneficial organism that lives in the soil. I wasn't sure if it was a mycorhizal symbiont at the time, but now it seems pretty certain. I'm wondering where he got that information, because it seems he's known for quite a while.

Does anybody know where i can buy that special "fertilizer" including the myco spores?
 
  • #23
Wow. So what do I have to use on my plants to get growth like that? Can I by it from a nursery or something
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?
 
  • #24
Tamlin Dawnstar has shown that Richard Davion's research gives an explanation on how and why Cephalotus follicularis varies pitcher size. I do believe there is a constant balance between environmental and genetic factors. This should be studied further.

Yes, D. Muscipula: The plants will be stronger and more robust in the presence of light, no doubt about that.

Agustin Franco
 
  • #25
All:

There seems to be a constant contradiction in empirical and acquired knowledge. Regarding beneficial microorganisms growing in the soil to help new cephs grow for example is one of them.

Many carnivorous plant growers believe that one should never plant baby plants in the same media as the parent plant. But then again, others say that one should use the parent plant's original media to grow cuttings because of the microorganisms present.

All i can say from personal experience at this stage, is that if one wants to transfer a plant from one pot to another, never leave the root naked, because this will cause the plant to contract for some time before new growth appears. It may have to do with root physical disturbance perhaps?. Although I don't have another explanation. I have never attempted to grow cephalotus in a media where other cephalotus have previously grown. If the microorganism theory is true, then why some experience cp'er say that one should not do so.

If one attempted to grow cephs in a media used by another ceph, according to the microorganisms theory, then this new plant should flourish wouldn't it?....

I look forward to anybody's reply or comments

AGustin Franco
 
  • #26
The fertilizer that Richard has come up with is named "Blue Dawning". I do not believe it is yet commercially available. The last I knew Richard does not have an email address.

Bob, Richard listed several other species that grow in association with the ultrafamic geology, and Darlingtonia is indeed one of them, as is Dionaea, D. binata, D. graminifolia, D. gigantea which are at least tolerant of serpentine, whereas D. capensis is quite intolerant. He also noted plants with a blue/green look seem to be responsive. Other possibilities include N. villosa, and D. hamiltonii.

Some other hints for growing large Cephalotus is to maintain high humidity during pitcher formation. Once formed, they can actually take much lower humidity. Also recommended is misting at night during the warm months of active growth, tapering off in the cooler fall and winter months. This encourages the initiation of pitchers as the plant senses optimal conditions of high humidity, and responds with the initiation of pitchers.

As to the advisability of growing the baby plants in the same pot as the parents, if Richard's theory is correct, then this seems a logical step. This is assuming the mycorhizae are present to begin with. If not, there can certainly be other colonization by fungi other than in this coordinated and directed symbiotic relationship. In these instances it would be prudent to begin anew with fresh media to avoid a possibly parasitic relationship. BTW, the symbiotic effect is only realized in a high cellulose (sawdust and peat) media, and the fungi may become parasitic in live sphagnum according to Richard.


I agree that there are genetic variants predisposed to larger pitchers, but it will be difficult to assess which factor is in play: genetics or environment. I hope that Augstin's research brings to light these possible variants.
 
  • #27
Dear Ladies and gentlemen:

This one is for the Hummers giant fans. plant owned by Mr. Jeff Mathesson, U.S.A. I am very grateful to him as well as many others for allowing me to publish their pictures. The article about the giant cephalotus will be published in the June edition of the N.S.W. carnivorous plant society journal. Hopefully it will be online. If not, I'll make sure it is available to everyone interested in this topic. The photo is being shown at http://www.dangerousplants.com..Since the other pictures are in my hardrive and cannot be published on the net, I would kindly ask anyone to show me how to create my own webpage. I don't know how.
Thanks

:eek:
CephHummerGiant.jpg
 
  • #29
Woot! Confermed symbiotic fungi in a CP. (I don't need to remind you how much of an advocite of the idea I am, lol)

Leaf size, in most plants:
When humidity is high, or light is low, a plant can afford larger leaves because water loss is not a concern. In addition to this, larger leaves let the plant gather more light should little be avalible.

When humidity is low or light is high, surfice area becomes a thret as more flesh = faster water loss. In such situations, smaller leaves are produced to reduce water loss because plenty of light can be obtained easly.

In plants such as the VFT, bright light with an unending water sorce will yeild fastest growth (but not nessesarily the most robust plant)

Because pitchers are modified leaves, it is probuble that their size is determind the same way.

Microbs and Symbiosis:
When such a system can be formed, plant growth will always be notably improved. While few cases have been offcially documented, it is therised by some scientists that their is at least 1 fungi symbiant conpatable with every living plant, probubly more. The most famious Microb Symbiant found is that of several extreamly rare Orchids. These Orchids have become so dependent on their fungi partners that they can not grow without them. So how did people find the fungi? A lab worker forgot to clean up and some seeds go mature plant mattle spilled on them along with some mosture. When everyone came back from the weekend, the seeds had sprouted, for the very first time in captivity!

And for the sake of noteing it, an odd fungi moved in with my baby Capensis, all "infected" grow twice as fast as those not.
 
  • #30
Dear Darcie:

If the fungi-infected drosera is growing strong and is not killed by the fungi, perhaps you should try to spread it around. I would try it on Cephs and Neps and see how it goes.


Agustin
 
  • #31
I might be a little hessitant to move the fungi to a different genus....it (the fungi) may not effect neps or VFT's the same way, since they have different chemistries. I'm not saying don't try it, just be careful.
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  • #32
Yah, I won't be messing with the fungi untill I have mature plants with it anyways.  Thankfully, it's pritty distinctive (and I forgot, it's more bacteria like then fungi-like under the microscope).  Anyhow, whatever it is, it makes a brown slime that covers the roots.  And then the slime ferms up and becomes a funky network of root-like things.  I think it's actually multipull organisms.

Edit: Hey, I just thought of something, our local botanical gardens have a Ceph and it's pitures are purple and red and a good 2-3 inches in size o_O I thought that was normal, but it must be a giant.
 
  • #33
All:

Let's not forget one thing. The same way parasitic fungi exist, so beneficial fungi. As a matter of fact, I am using a combination of Trichoderma fungi which prevents root rot with good results. This fungi tends to devour bothrytis, rhizoctonia, fusarium and other nasties. In most cases, bad fungi never does anything beneficial to the plant. It just consumes it all and moves on to the next target. I agree, though let's be careful, but you should try it...

Agustin Franco
 
  • #34
Gus is spot on with this. As I have stated so often before, as a general rule, fungi are NOT your friends. BTW, Richard Davion's research also demonstrated that even the beneficial fungi can become parasitic under different conditions. Remember that integrated associative systems in habitat differ greatly from cultivation, and any appearance of fungi should be closely evaluated.
 
  • #35
On fungi: Yup yup, I was trying to kill it when I sudenly discoverd the infected plants were the healthy ones, lol

On the Cephs: I just got back from the gardens. Their plant has 2 inch tall pitures
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  • #36
How big can the pitcher of the typical gets?

Bjørn
 
  • #37
Typical cephalotus grows up to 5 cm or 2 inches (that is measuring from the bottom of the pitcher to the lid. However, this type of measurement is always inaccurate, because as you may already know, the lid moves up and down depending on the relative environmental humidity levels.

Giant forms usually have pitchers that are more than 5 cm or 2 inches from the bottom of the pitcher to the peristome or mouth.

I hope i have answered your question

Agustin
 
  • #38
Hi All:[P]Does everybody want to see large plants in small pots?. Please look at this one
03173.jpg
The picture shown above is courtesy from Mr. Naoki Tanabe (japanese carnivorous plant society). The plant shown above is the giant form introduced to Germany by Mr. Harold Weiner (1987). This clone is commercially available in Germany and Switzerland. However, prestigious cp shops in The U.S. are acquiring it to have it available to the public. Very precious indeed.[P]Notice the differences between the giant form (true giant) and the hummer's giant. The hummer's giant has a very wide ventral T rib, while the true giant's is very thin. Likewise, the hummer's giant peristome or mouth is very thick, while the that of the true giant is very thin.[P]From the pictures, i have seen of Julie's giant, it looks different from these two. It'd be wonderful to check the genetics of these three plants. [P]Enjoy.[P]Gus [P]
--------------------
03173.jpg
 
  • #39
Edit:
Viola!  Just have to steal a few links, people.  You're making it too hard!
wink.gif


PS I'm still not seeing any real obvious differences

CephHummerGiant.jpg
03173.jpg

ceph.pict.jpg

Oops, was doing an edit to make the image visible and didn't realize Tony already did it...

Nice pic, Gus.  Thanks.  I must say i'm having trouble see which structures are distinctive between the two giants, though.  Are you comparing the ceph in this photo with the one at the top of the page?
 
  • #40
Correct:

Maybe we should try to put them side by side.

Gus
 
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