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Thread: S.minor Not Doing so hot

  1. #17
    Nepenthes Specialist nepenthes gracilis's Avatar
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    OK Mike, I'll do that. Thanks bunch! NG

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    After some though, ima going to do this: im going to move the plants to a new location where they get less harsh light. Im also going to place them in a tub filled with water to increase humidty.
    Taproot, Anti-Flag, The Casualties, Alkaline Trio, Eleventeen, Deadsy, AFI...what's not to love?

  3. #19
    Nepenthes Specialist nepenthes gracilis's Avatar
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    All right, what I did was I took the plant outta it's old pot and put it in with another Purpurea as the water table is MUCH higher and if another Purpurea is doing fine in that pot, thne it should be OK for that one too. I lower lighting ALOT into near half to 3/4's of shade. SO lots of nice cool shade and a little warm sun. Sound good?

  4. #20

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    Hi Nep G,
    That is only really for your wilted plant a chance to recover, your other purp, leave it be where it is. And when your f. heterophylla shows signs of recovery, then place it next to the purp. Long term, this plants love light and plenty of water. With Cephalotus, because he lives in a drier, hotter climate needs to take extra measures as the sun factor is no doubt higher!

    Enjoy the sun while you have it guys, summer in England is cancelled until further notice! [img]http://www.**********.com/iBhtml/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif[/img]
    Best Regards

    Mike King

    NCCPG National collection holder of Sarracenia

    http://www.carnivorousplants.uk.com

  5. #21

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    Hello,
    To add to Mike Kings suggestions regarding possible problems.
    This is specific to S. minor.
    S. minor can be a rather hard case for Sarracenia in culture.
    In SF CA 5 hours of dirrect sun isn't too harsh. Though in habitat S. minor can often be found in a somewhat dappled light under Pine Trees or Wax Mrytle's, it is just as commonly found in full sun at a farther south location with more instense sunlight than found naturally at your location. Still it will tolerate less light with this it will not be as colorful or compact with pitcher features. It will thrive.

    I would think your humidity would be fine in SF as a coastal city. S. minor grows in locations that often drop to 45% humidity during the day while in active growth with daytime temps in the 90's F. More important than posted humidity is the dewpoint temp with regards to air temp.

    S. minor in general needs a well drained medium and can be grown drier than many other Sarracenia. It is subject to fungal attack in culture due to wet roots. Many growers add more silica sand to the S,. minor medium than acidic peat.
    Even if you are finding good healthy roots (white tips or white) when re-potting if the rhizome is soft & smushy most likely the rhizome has rotted off. This is a common problem and related to many different root rot, black rot problems. They can be traced back to a culture that is often too humid, and water logged conditions combined with other things such as lack of air movement, or too dim light.

    A general rule is not to keep S. minor in a constant standing tray of water. Allow for some drying between watering.

    A browning of new leaves on top that have yet to open can be a sign of poor water quality, hard water containing too much sodium or a high alkaline content. Some S. minor are very sensetive to hard water while others such as the form found in the Okee Swamp can tolerate somewhat more alkaline / hard water.
    Also browning of the upper portions of newer leaves can be a sign of fertilizer application that results in burn, much related to use of alkaline water.

    I once had many S. minor burn off at the tops & couldn't figure out why. At night a sprinkler was coming on and splashing hard brackish well water on the S. minor it was burning the plants, even though the potting medium was ok.

    For plants that have diseased leaves I find it best to quickly remove the leave as so not to allow spreading of the disease throughout the plant. Most root rots with Sarracenia appear at the base (lower portion) of the leaf where it connects with the rhizome on the crown. The upper portion of the leaf (pitcher) will still look green.

    While a burned leaf doesn't indicate a disease it can quickly allow entry for pest/disease into the plant.
    Older leaves normally die off from the top and this isn't burn, but new pitchers browning before opening isn't normal.

    Fianlly plants grown in containers build up mineral content even with better water compared to plants in habitat due to the container not being able to leech out chemicals/minerals. So more frequent transplant is required.
    S. minor is somewhat of more difficult Sarracenia to grow compared to others, including any hybrids.
    I have found its culture mimics many S. rubra types.
    Take care,
    [b] ~ Mike

  6. #22

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    Hi Mike,
    You guys certainly have different growing techniques, but your climate is radically different to us in the UK!

    With S. minor 'okefenokee giant', I have had good success with the pot submerged totally with a top dressing of live sphagnum and the plant is huge. The advantage with this is botrytis would never be a problem.

    With the rest, I have standard height forms and other okee giants standing permanently in about 1" of rain water and again, the plants are thriving. The difference is all mine are under glass all year round and we have mild winters, cooler more humid Summers with occasional hot days (if you call a max of 85 f hot&#33[img]http://www.**********.com/iBhtml/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/img] and the plants achieve a height of 2 1/2 feet. And the humidity in the greenhouse in the growing season is always high.

    With growing out of doors in SF, I would like to know how a S. minor would do with the pot submerged technique, as in the okefenokee, plants are often submerged in floating sphagnum 'rafts'.
    Best Regards

    Mike King

    NCCPG National collection holder of Sarracenia

    http://www.carnivorousplants.uk.com

  7. #23

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    It depends on where the plant originated. Okee giants and the typical size S. minor found in the okefenokee swamp tend to like it very wet and are seen growing in shallow water. A lot of the other locations S. minor is from, they are drier. At least this is what I heard... and most photo's i've show the same.

    Sarracenia minor "okefenokee giant"


    Looks wet to me [img]http://www.**********.com/iBhtml/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img]
    Statik2426

  8. #24

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    Hello Mike,

    I agree with you fully about different growing conditions.
    The growing conditions on the west coast are far different than here in Florida.
    Its not Botrytis that is a main enemy to most of the Sarracenia here, though it certainly is common.
    The Sarracenia in container (or in ground plantings to a degree) are very prone to Phytophthora stem rot- this takes a great deal of plants out & spreads like wildfire in communal
    plantings. Same goes for Pythium and the evil Rhizoctonia blights. All are terrors to the moist loving Sarracenia.
    Aiding to this in the deep south yearly, as well other locations seasonally are warm humid nights that temps don't fall below 75 F or so. Very dangerous for Sarracenia if extremely wet conditions exist with very high humidity and low air movement.

    Mike your plants are incredible, and I compliment your growing skills and what fantastic plants you have.

    For S. minor, I mentioned the Okee plants, but they are not the typical S. minor in cultivation. S. minor 'Okee does and can grow very wet. However, it can fall victim rapidly to fungal attack. I enjoy somewhat drier potting for the Okee plants and the results yield the same robust virgorous plants with maybe a little less spraw (tighter growth). I have never found the "GIANT" plants that great of a plant for the species in the way of looks. Big doesn't always mean better. Even in habitat I find the plants somewhat awkard looking and really elongated in stance over the smaller types found elsewhere. I have also never found the Giant Okee swamp plants that colorful (atttractive is the word) over the coppery color of more compact types.
    S. minor in many habitat locations is found in drier shaded habitat, shaded by the highest sun angles and drier in that often hardwoods such as seedling Oak trees can exist with the plants. This would show a ecosystem in transition from a moist flatwood to a drier mixed forest. Towards the southern range in central Florida these plants often grow in rather dense shade from a full Pine canopy with a thick understory.
    The plants look poor most of the time, but almost never are found in the more moist locations with sun, even though they may be next to each other by only feet. It is not like seed has not been deposited in these locations, yet it fails to grow.
    Some of the best S. minor locations are in SC and the best site I know of covers a good amount of acreage under Pines.
    These are beautiful well formed colorful plants and it is moist.
    There are many habitats for what I consider the most striking Sarracenia.
    This past May we discovered plants growing in the Big Bend area of Florida that almost rival the Okee plants in size, far larger than most Florida S. minor. They were 20 - 24" tall. Well formed and in a shaded drier location than the Okee plants.

    I think a good portion of my post is regarding water quality, and the Okee plants have here been able to take as well as propser in 'saltier hard water compared to S. minor from NC or Georgia outside of the swamp.
    The plants sound burned due to the top growth on new pitchers browning. Water is a main factor of this, fertilizer, sun are other culprits.
    Plants of the species S. minor and S. rubra, followed by S. alata seem more delicate to anything less than very low mineral water. Where as S. psittacina, S. leucophylla, & some S. flava can take much harder water for longer periods.
    If the water isn't very low ppm then a enterance is allowed, similar to bug bites in the plant. Path ways for fungal infection. I have certainly experienced this first hand with my irrigation well as its quality has gone downhill with regards to hardness and plant burnings, starting with browning of the tops. This is often followed by one of the above pathogens entering into the plants and taking them down.
    A planting medium containing more alkaline contents hastens this, such as perlite, or silica sand. It doesn't buffer the plants like a more heavy pure medium such as sphagnum moss peat. Also these other potting mediums allow for a higher medium pH. Allowing hard water of >100ppm to further add to the root alkalinity of the plants.
    I have not seen any problem with using hard water with container grown Nepenthes (in general) compared to Sarracenia. The build up in the potting medium with Sarracenia is fairly fast for bad results with the plants again it can be aiding by the actual contents of the medium.
    It is in this way that hard water, or alkaline water can slowly effect overall health of Sarracenia by wounding the plants and these wounds open the plants to fungal infection which is rapid and fatal even if the plant seems to be growing fine. It will wilt, drop, die in a matter of days. By the time damage is seen often it is too late to save the rhizome even if roots appear clean & healthy

    Take care,

    ~ Mike
    St. Petersburg Florida
    [b] ~ Mike

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