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Thread: S. flava 'red tube'

  1. #25

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    Alvin,
    Yes, it is Mike King I am refering too with the 3000+ plants.

    It was my understanding the the Earth was tilted on it's axis and that in the summer the northern hemisphere was closer to the sun thus making the suns rays stronger and creating longer days (i. e. summer). It was this stronger light and longer days that I was refering too. Did I misunderstand something in science class? This maybe a bit off the topic but I think it has bearing on the subject at hand.

    Any thoughts on the matter Mr. King?
    I remain a man obsessed with a genus
    Brooks

  2. #26

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    Hi Brooks,
    Well the light here is much less intense! We are 53 degrees north and the maximum sun index we get here is 6! [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/smile.gif[/img]
    You have seen the plants, the ornatas are stable and the red tubes are in the same bench, same potting medium with the same light. What i think is that there are plants that are intergrades between rubricorpora and ornata. Ihave these plants too and start out ornata like, but deepen until they are red tubed (F95 is a classic of this from my grow list0, but clones like F35, F36, F87,F88 and F122 all are stable ornatas with no tendency to colour up further.
    http://www.mikeking64.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ssar...._2.html

    What I think Bugweed has found are true rubricorporas that were not growing in ideal conditions and we all know how these plants look when not growing ideally. The plants above were selected by Alan Hindle et al for their stability and trueness of form, but with these plants growing in exactly the same conditons, greenhouse, and sharing the same water on the same bench, environmental variations have been eliminated. I guess the true ornata plants without colouring up are hard to find, But Alan Hindle charged top money for these clones!!
    I am very much looking forward to our trip together in the US next year and look forward to researching this in the field!
    Best Regards

    Mike King

    NCCPG National collection holder of Sarracenia

    http://www.carnivorousplants.uk.com

  3. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]There still is a great deal to learn about these plants. Keep growing, trying and learning.

    No offence, but I think Mike has forgotten more than you'll ever know This is Mike with 3000+ plants you're referring to?

    --------------
    Sorry, I thought you were being at tad patronising towards our Mr King! A classic example of something on screen sounding different when read back then how it was intended
    [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/smilie4.gif[/img]

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]It was my understanding the the Earth was tilted on it's axis and that in the summer the northern hemisphere was closer to the sun thus making the suns rays stronger and creating longer days (i. e. summer). It was this stronger light and longer days that I was refering too. Did I misunderstand something in science class? This maybe a bit off the topic but I think it has bearing on the subject at hand.
    The north does tilt towards the sun more in summer creating longer days, but the bulge of the earth always means the nearer the equator you go the nearer to the sun you'll be. The north would only receive stronger sun if the earth were a cube not a sphere.

    Back to sarras, and in theory an ornata x rubricorpora should be intergrade and not quite all red tubed. Another thread showed the huge range of colours from one seed pod and two sets of genes. Such a cross could definitely produce an all red tubed plant, but next to it its brother wouldn't have the genetic makeup to turn completely red tubed.
    I also have a cross of S.x flava 'Burgundy' x alata which is almost completey red but still veined. It stays like that until October when it turns completely maroon in the tubes. So even in the same season a plant can look very different between the beginning and the end.
    Alexis Vallance, U.K.
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  4. #28

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    I did notice today that there are some red veins in the throat of the pitcher if you will. otherwise, it is as green as ever...

  5. #29

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    Alvin,
    I in no way meant any disrespect towards Mike King. I consider Mike to be one of the leading authorities on sarracenias and a friend. Thanks for the clarifacation on the sun intensity in the UK. I stand corrected. It has been 30 some odd years since science class anyway.

    I was not even refuting what Mike King has to say. I like Mike, believe that there are pure rubricorpas or pure autropurpureas.(as pure as these can be in a mixed bog) and ornata is a hybrid between rugelli and one of these, which ever is present in the bog. There seem to be varing degrees of ornata-ism due to the mixing of the genes. I do believe that there also exisit plants that look like ornatas that indeed are rubis or autros with out proper acid levels or sufficent sunlight.
    I remain a man obsessed with a genus
    Brooks

  6. #30

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    What does Mr. Hindle charge for a pure ornata? The L. Wilkerson bog might be a good place to explore this theroy as it has all three forms.
    I remain a man obsessed with a genus
    Brooks

  7. #31
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    I'm really liking these discussions. Are these photos appropriately timed, or what? [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/smile.gif[/img] Both are from very distant sites in Florida.

    [img]http://home.**********.com/users/imduff/flavagroup.jpg[/img]
    [img]http://home.**********.com/users/imduff/flavasingle0002.jpg[/img]


    I really believe that a discussion of flava color patterns is a discussion of purp color patterns. All these nice color forms that we see in flava may be the result of stabilized purp intragression. These two plants very commonly hybridize in the fields of Florida and North Carolina. The hybrids further cross with the species, producing offspring that more closely resemble one of the species.
    Inheritance patterns suggest dominance and recessiveness. I believe the variant forms suggested by Schnell are for taxonomic purposes, not genetic. If two clones of rubricorpias are crossed the progeny vary from ornata to rubricorpia. This suggests that the rubricorpia trait is not a genetic marker. In this discussion the veining patterns are a purp characteristic and dominate over the flava ('rugelii') color patterns. How's that for speculation?
    imduff

  8. #32

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    Imduff, Fantastic speculation. I love these discussions too. It isn't a matter of right or wrong, but curiousity. Theories abound, and I have lots of'em!! And again, who knows? The mixes go on and on and the color forms more fantastic all the time.
    45 yrs. growin\'
    Founder NASC

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