I have a s. alata that is fairly 'old'. I'd say about 8-10 years old. It's soil is composed of straight peat. I got it this way from a nursery earlier this year. I decided to divide it earlier this year and did so with a fair amount of sucess after debating the whole thing for some time. I put the divided plant in a mix of about 50/50 peat and sand. It is at my neighbors house for he loves these things but wants an easy plant to care for. That plant is doing exceptional, and the others that were left in the all peat mix are just kinda blah. Now I know that stress is a factor here and yeah, the plant at my neighbors house gets about 45 mins more sun, but could this be a case of soil exhaustion? same plant and the only real difference that I would connect would be the soil composition. I do not know if this plant has ever been repotted except for what I did. I am curious to know what everyone thinks. I will be repotting here soon. thanks...
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Repotting CP is like restarting the computer: if there are unseen problems, such can resolve them. Over time, even with the best cultivation, salts can and do accumulate in the mix, especially if the pots are not exposed to frequent rains which leech them out. It is for this reason that I generally repot my droserae each season, if possible. The same is likely true for Sarracenia: repotting seldom hurts, and often gives the plants a boost.
Tamlin, you must indirectly be Cananda's leading importer of peat, lol. BTW, thanks for the 'coccicaulis' seed.
It sounds like the others need to be repotted also, but you might wait until late Winter/early Spring so it will be less stressful while they are dormant.
One way to keep the soil exciting is by using peat tea. This involves boiling peat(tea bags can also be used) in purified water to get a high tannic solution to water the plants with. Of course, make sure it's cooled before watering...
Cheers,
Joe
It sounds like the others need to be repotted also, but you might wait until late Winter/early Spring so it will be less stressful while they are dormant.
One way to keep the soil exciting is by using peat tea. This involves boiling peat(tea bags can also be used) in purified water to get a high tannic solution to water the plants with. Of course, make sure it's cooled before watering...
Cheers,
Joe
I never did understand that bit about repotting only when dormant. I repot my plants whenever I or they seem to feel the need, and it has never made any difference with any plant I have ever done it to.
You are welcome for the seed
I find this to be a real gem of a Drosera and I hope you will enjoy it, and pass it on. This form leans heavily towards D. natalensis I think. Other venusta's reflect more D. dielsiana, and I hope to offer seed of this type in the near future as well.
I buy one mega bale of peat per season, and that seems to do the trick. I make them show me the goods before I buy the bale too. If I get those Brazilian seeds like I hope, I will probably need 2 bales as I plan on doubling my current 40 shop lights. Better buy stock in peat companies in Canada, hahaha!
You are welcome for the seed
I buy one mega bale of peat per season, and that seems to do the trick. I make them show me the goods before I buy the bale too. If I get those Brazilian seeds like I hope, I will probably need 2 bales as I plan on doubling my current 40 shop lights. Better buy stock in peat companies in Canada, hahaha!
jimscott
Tropical Fish Enthusiast
Well, hmmmm. I guess I have to say I repot if the plant is behaving atypically. It could be for a number of reasons, but there IS a reason. If a plant is not prospering like it once was, there is a reason. If you can't see it on the plant, then it is probably below the surface i.e. in the roots, or in the mix. There are many ills that can affect plants: too high a salt content in the mix, the wrong Ph, root mealy bug, scale, root nematodes, anaerobic bacteria, parasitic fungi.....but they are most of them associated with the growing medium. Getting rid of IT gets rid of most of THEM, along with any undesirable salts. It affords a chance to see the roots, and to look closely for signs of root mealy: the great dreaded miserable pests that really call for chemical warfare. (This is another reason why I dislike perlite: it obscures the cottony masses that can indicate mealy bug infection).
Jim,
What do you mean exactly by impurities. Going over my head on that one for some reaso....
Based on Tamlin's TDS meter, there seem to be a lot more impurites that I would have thought. I nuke my peat in the microwave, but I have never soaked it. I thought it might leach out the tannins, but maybe only very hot water does that.
The peat tea adds tannic acid, which lowers the pH of the soil, and brings out that red coloration in some plants, most notably Sarracenia. I imagine using that and having them really close to the lights would help red dragon flytraps too.
Cheers,
Joe
What do you mean exactly by impurities. Going over my head on that one for some reaso....
Based on Tamlin's TDS meter, there seem to be a lot more impurites that I would have thought. I nuke my peat in the microwave, but I have never soaked it. I thought it might leach out the tannins, but maybe only very hot water does that.
The peat tea adds tannic acid, which lowers the pH of the soil, and brings out that red coloration in some plants, most notably Sarracenia. I imagine using that and having them really close to the lights would help red dragon flytraps too.
Cheers,
Joe
I never thought much about it, but I do believe peat tea may include undesirable salts dissolved out of the peat. BTW, it was not just my TDS meter, the readings were confirmed by two other researchers as well. I haven't experimented with its use, but other have commented favorably on its use.
It may be that Sarracenia are not as sensitive as Drosera to accumulated salts. I rather think this is the case, although I have noted the decline of plants I have received that used what I feel is "questionable" sand prior to their repotting.
It may be that Sarracenia are not as sensitive as Drosera to accumulated salts. I rather think this is the case, although I have noted the decline of plants I have received that used what I feel is "questionable" sand prior to their repotting.
I repotted several 1+ yr S. leucophyllas in mid summer and, a few weeks later, unpotted them to send them to someone. During that short time, they had an enormous amount of root growth. But I use a mix of LFS and volcanic rock (the large, irregular perlite stuff), a combination I think encourages better root development.
Sarracenias don't really go dormant, so I prefer disturbing them when in full growth. That way they have an active metabolism to heal injuries and fight infections. Maybe they're dormant in a refrigerator, but mine are clearly active in the winter, even with air temperatures sometimes below 0F and and a pile of oak leaves overhead. They aren't doing much, but they're doing something.
Peat breaks down when aerobic and most roots need aerobic conditions. For that reason, muck farmers need to balance the drainage needed for crops against the increased decomposition of their soil resulting from the aerobic conditions. Decomposing peat in a pot can lose its nice structure and become an amorphous goo that restricts the passage of water and air. That isn't good for Sarrs.
Sarracenias don't really go dormant, so I prefer disturbing them when in full growth. That way they have an active metabolism to heal injuries and fight infections. Maybe they're dormant in a refrigerator, but mine are clearly active in the winter, even with air temperatures sometimes below 0F and and a pile of oak leaves overhead. They aren't doing much, but they're doing something.
Peat breaks down when aerobic and most roots need aerobic conditions. For that reason, muck farmers need to balance the drainage needed for crops against the increased decomposition of their soil resulting from the aerobic conditions. Decomposing peat in a pot can lose its nice structure and become an amorphous goo that restricts the passage of water and air. That isn't good for Sarrs.
Interesting that you say they continue to grow. I was amazed to find that the plants which were supposedly dormant in the winter (as aquatics!) seemed so much larger the following spring. I have no other option but to believe the rhizomes continued to spread, and it may be due to the aquatic overwintering. Something did happen though because in the spring the plants grew and flowered like never before.
Your comments on the muck are spot on: nasty things happen where there is no oxygen to discourage anaerobic processes. If I had access to volcanic rock, this would be my choice as well to provide aeration. I do not like perlite. I think liberal use of LFS also helps keep things clean, aerated and happy, and I use this in all my mixes.
Your comments on the muck are spot on: nasty things happen where there is no oxygen to discourage anaerobic processes. If I had access to volcanic rock, this would be my choice as well to provide aeration. I do not like perlite. I think liberal use of LFS also helps keep things clean, aerated and happy, and I use this in all my mixes.
Since I have far fewer plants, a 2 cu ft (I think) bag of volcanic rock has lasted a while. I thought I ordered it from Jim's Orchid Supplies in Florida, but now I'm not sure. I checked his website and he calls his sponge rock and I think his is a smaller size. So I'm at a complete loss as to where I got it.
jimscott
Tropical Fish Enthusiast
When I buy peat, and I use the Canadian peat, I have been strongly urged to rinse it thoroughly before using it. Nuking it has also been suggested. My question was on the premise that the peat used for peat tea was not washed beforehand. I'm just not clear as to the entire process. When washing peat, the liquid from that process is discarded of its impurities. The way I took the peat tea process is that what would have normally been discarded is now desirable - the peat tea. That's what motivated my question and my confusion. I would have done a PM, but I thought maybe I wasn't the only one with the question. Could you clarify the process for me - and possibly others?[b said:Quote[/b] (The Griffin @ Sep. 08 2004,11:39)]Jim,
What do you mean exactly by impurities. Going over my head on that one for some reaso....
Based on Tamlin's TDS meter, there seem to be a lot more impurites that I would have thought. I nuke my peat in the microwave, but I have never soaked it. I thought it might leach out the tannins, but maybe only very hot water does that.
The peat tea adds tannic acid, which lowers the pH of the soil, and brings out that red coloration in some plants, most notably Sarracenia. I imagine using that and having them really close to the lights would help red dragon flytraps too.
Cheers,
Joe
William I do not want to offend you, but did you think about the gigantic bogs that are destroyed for producing peat ?[b said:
I always try to use as little peat as possible and keep it for as long as possible. Use good water without salts and try to mix your peat with as much perlite, sand and so on as possible.
Peat is a natural ressource which needs much time to be produced ...
Jan
Ouch Jan.
It is true, peat is not a renewable resource. I do not use it in any context other than CP growing (soil additives, gardening, etc).
In this case, the peat reserves in Canada are extensive and in no danger of immediate depletion. Without peat, what I do would not be possible! I think I do a good work.
So for now, I figure the good that comes from my use of itoutweighs the negatve impact. Sure, I could boycott it and find alternatives, but it wont stop the many millions of gardeners who really are not aware of the issues, or don't care about it, even if they are aware.
I can use it and still sleep at night, so I will continue to do so.
It is true, peat is not a renewable resource. I do not use it in any context other than CP growing (soil additives, gardening, etc).
In this case, the peat reserves in Canada are extensive and in no danger of immediate depletion. Without peat, what I do would not be possible! I think I do a good work.
So for now, I figure the good that comes from my use of itoutweighs the negatve impact. Sure, I could boycott it and find alternatives, but it wont stop the many millions of gardeners who really are not aware of the issues, or don't care about it, even if they are aware.
I can use it and still sleep at night, so I will continue to do so.
Sphagnum peat has some terrific properties that make it very valuable for bog (and CP) gardeners. They are unusual people and rare enough to only use a miniscule fraction of the annual peat harvest. The problem is that the bedding plant and nursery and garden supply industries can make slightly more money with peat than with any number of less damaging substitutes. So they consume vast amounts of the stuff. And many of the substitutes would provide superior results for the customers.
Jim,
I can't speak with authority for anything other than Drosera, and you have already heard it regarding that genus. It may be Sarracenia are more tolerant of higher TDS, or that different levels in different batches of peat produced varrying results for those trying the tea. All I can state are the observations, independently confirmed, that water squeezed from wet peat had TDS in the range of 300-1000 PPM, and common advice stresses that ober 100 is not healthy for most CP, and probably the reason for much of the moss and algae contamination that growers experience. So, with this in mind, I have never been tempted to experiment with it, and really find no need to since all my Sarracenia thrive and are well colored. I certainly have less incidence of moss and algae using my protocol:
Peat from the bale goes into a 5 gallon bucket, half full. Rain water is added to fill the bucket, and the peat is brooken by hand and kneaded. It is allowed to sit and hydrate for a week or two, and then the water is sqeezed from the peat. This peat is then placed in another 5 gallon bucket and the process is repeated. The resultant peat will now be mixed with pre-washed silica sand that has been rinsed until the water runs clear 50/50 or higher as fits the need. Pots are then filled, and these are placed on wire racks outside for the seasons rains to leach through. The oldest pots are the ones selected for planting when need arises. In the fall, the pots of mix are brought inside where they stand dry until ready for use. If I anticipate they wil be needed, they are put into water trays to hydrate well in advance of the arrival of the plants, or the sowing of seed or gemmae. The process is best done early in the season to take full advantage of the seasons rains.
Microwaving the mix kills any problem spores present and is good for scenarios like seed sowing where any moss will jeapordize the seedlings, but the process does not affect the TDS content. Microwaving does not remove anything from the mix, these salts must be dissolved out.
Note as well that both Pinguiculaman and I receive comments about the quality of our plants, and both of us use this protocol (and incidently arrived at it independtly of each other in the course of our experience). I feel that this protocol along with the use of abundant light are the main factors in our success with cultivating these plants.
Now we need PAK to put this in the article section so I don't have to keep explaining it. If you study bog ecology you will come to know how anaerobic bacteria fix carbonates into the lower layers of the bog. Lower peat is usually bad stuff. This is why the UK folk have such a hard time with mosses growing in their pots. Their peat resources are sorely depleted, and they are mining the lower layers. Canadian peat resources are more extensive, and less deeply mined. The upper layers of the bog are well oxygenated, and anaerobic bacteria cannot proliferate. As a result, there is less nitrogen and carbonate fixation in the upper peat strata. We are fortunate to have access to good peat, but there is no way to tell just hoe good is good, hence my protocol which takes away the guesswork and danger. Drosera do not appreciate mineral presence, and will let you know it in short order. Once the process accelerates to the point where there is freely growing moss and algae, the plants will decline even if they are not being crowded out my the actively growing moss. This is because the bacteria are proliferating, and just as in the lower bog they are fixing nitrates and carbonates into the mix. They may do well at first but this is because the salts only accumulate over time, as the bacteria prosper.
One of the products of algae is agar, and this is a perfect substrate for fungi and mold to colonize (especially in terrarium settings). With fungi come fungi gnats and their larvae which can feed on sensitive root tips already compromised by low oxgen reserves. Damaged roots are also easily attacked by the fungi now present, which parasitize the plant, stealing its sugars as they are produced. Also I would not be surprised to find that thrips some how fit into this thriving microcommunity. Many CP must have pristine conditions to thrive, most Drosera do. WHen things progress as above the plants invariably decline.
When such decline is observed, then serious measures of leaching by syringe from above, or total transplant are called for. Otherwise the plants die. A "runaway" pot is an ugly site to see for me, so I take strong measures to prevent its happening.
I can't speak with authority for anything other than Drosera, and you have already heard it regarding that genus. It may be Sarracenia are more tolerant of higher TDS, or that different levels in different batches of peat produced varrying results for those trying the tea. All I can state are the observations, independently confirmed, that water squeezed from wet peat had TDS in the range of 300-1000 PPM, and common advice stresses that ober 100 is not healthy for most CP, and probably the reason for much of the moss and algae contamination that growers experience. So, with this in mind, I have never been tempted to experiment with it, and really find no need to since all my Sarracenia thrive and are well colored. I certainly have less incidence of moss and algae using my protocol:
Peat from the bale goes into a 5 gallon bucket, half full. Rain water is added to fill the bucket, and the peat is brooken by hand and kneaded. It is allowed to sit and hydrate for a week or two, and then the water is sqeezed from the peat. This peat is then placed in another 5 gallon bucket and the process is repeated. The resultant peat will now be mixed with pre-washed silica sand that has been rinsed until the water runs clear 50/50 or higher as fits the need. Pots are then filled, and these are placed on wire racks outside for the seasons rains to leach through. The oldest pots are the ones selected for planting when need arises. In the fall, the pots of mix are brought inside where they stand dry until ready for use. If I anticipate they wil be needed, they are put into water trays to hydrate well in advance of the arrival of the plants, or the sowing of seed or gemmae. The process is best done early in the season to take full advantage of the seasons rains.
Microwaving the mix kills any problem spores present and is good for scenarios like seed sowing where any moss will jeapordize the seedlings, but the process does not affect the TDS content. Microwaving does not remove anything from the mix, these salts must be dissolved out.
Note as well that both Pinguiculaman and I receive comments about the quality of our plants, and both of us use this protocol (and incidently arrived at it independtly of each other in the course of our experience). I feel that this protocol along with the use of abundant light are the main factors in our success with cultivating these plants.
Now we need PAK to put this in the article section so I don't have to keep explaining it. If you study bog ecology you will come to know how anaerobic bacteria fix carbonates into the lower layers of the bog. Lower peat is usually bad stuff. This is why the UK folk have such a hard time with mosses growing in their pots. Their peat resources are sorely depleted, and they are mining the lower layers. Canadian peat resources are more extensive, and less deeply mined. The upper layers of the bog are well oxygenated, and anaerobic bacteria cannot proliferate. As a result, there is less nitrogen and carbonate fixation in the upper peat strata. We are fortunate to have access to good peat, but there is no way to tell just hoe good is good, hence my protocol which takes away the guesswork and danger. Drosera do not appreciate mineral presence, and will let you know it in short order. Once the process accelerates to the point where there is freely growing moss and algae, the plants will decline even if they are not being crowded out my the actively growing moss. This is because the bacteria are proliferating, and just as in the lower bog they are fixing nitrates and carbonates into the mix. They may do well at first but this is because the salts only accumulate over time, as the bacteria prosper.
One of the products of algae is agar, and this is a perfect substrate for fungi and mold to colonize (especially in terrarium settings). With fungi come fungi gnats and their larvae which can feed on sensitive root tips already compromised by low oxgen reserves. Damaged roots are also easily attacked by the fungi now present, which parasitize the plant, stealing its sugars as they are produced. Also I would not be surprised to find that thrips some how fit into this thriving microcommunity. Many CP must have pristine conditions to thrive, most Drosera do. WHen things progress as above the plants invariably decline.
When such decline is observed, then serious measures of leaching by syringe from above, or total transplant are called for. Otherwise the plants die. A "runaway" pot is an ugly site to see for me, so I take strong measures to prevent its happening.
In case anyone is curious, peat tea is made by boiling peat in pure water. The boiling leaches the tannins out. I don't think Tamlin's(and Pinguiculaman's) soaking leaches tannins out(just possible salts, ect).
I think lfs/perlite sounds great for Sarracenia seedlings. The really small lava pebbles are super expensive around here and pumice is non-exixtant ,so I have to use perlite. The sand around here is very fine also, so I don't use much sand.
Cheers,
Joe
I think lfs/perlite sounds great for Sarracenia seedlings. The really small lava pebbles are super expensive around here and pumice is non-exixtant ,so I have to use perlite. The sand around here is very fine also, so I don't use much sand.
Cheers,
Joe
