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Thread: Poachers

  1. #41
    herenorthere's Avatar
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    Most people in this forum might, but if there was such a demand for location data, the market would provide it. Check ********** or Cook's or California Carnivores and you won't find location data. Peter Paul's, who probably should be required to, doesn't provide location data either. And you won't find it at Lowes. If the mass market doesn't bother to provide location data, it must not have much value. Or at least the added value doesn't warrant the extra effort necessary to provide it. The sale of plants with location data is a niche market poachers would be foolish to serve. After all, a poacher can only be busted if someone knows where the plants came from.
    Bruce in CT

    Madness is something rare in individuals but in groups, parties, peoples, ages it is the rule. Friedrich Nietzsche

  2. #42
    cool85k5's Avatar
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    Well,I don't poach plants or buy poached plants.All plants that I have with location data were from trades with members.Of coarse a poacher is'nt going to put location data with it,they are not that stupid,well some might be.But they are for poaching plants.Opinions are like buttholes,everyone has one.Just my 2 cents.


    Jerry

  3. #43
    cool85k5's Avatar
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    Most hobby growers(I do) like to have location data.

    Jerry

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    True enough, Jerry. Maybe Bruce isn't interested in location data, but most serious collectors are. The reason is only known to the hobbyist, but some tell me that each stand, let's say, Leucophylla, may look similar to another stand elsewhere, but there are many differences, however minor, that make each stand unique. The plants they mix with at their location, for one thing, passes around genetics from a whole different set of plants per bog. Coloration can be different per bog. A red tube in one stand may not be as red as the red tube leuc's just a mile down the road. Many differences that can make a collection different from other collections. Alata's from Mississippi will be more colorful than a Citronelle alata. Alata from Texas will vary in coloration, and form, county to county. Differences that keep all the bogs seperate and unique. It doesn't matter to me if you can see these differences or not, but many poachers go after specific/site specific plants. That requires location knowledge, and if they are smart, no, they won't tell any but the unscrupulous collector they collected for. If location plants were not important, then why do all the major collectors, want site specific plants. Just because a nursery does not give location data, doesn't mean they don't know where it came from. My friend Dean Cook, can tell you the location of every plant he sells, unless it is imported. if you want location data from Dean, just ask. If it is known, you will get it. No matter what I read in the Schnell's Ghost thread, Phil Wilson is wrong to lump the Citronelle whites in with Schnells from Baldwin County. Their are many differences if you just look for them. Location plants have their own intrinsic value, and I am with Jay L., Joe Mazrimas, Peter D'Amato, Dean Cook, Brooks Garcia, Jim Miller, Carl Mazur, Tamlin Dawnstar, and Imduff, when it comes knowing the value of these plants, and money has nothing to do with it. They are so different, even from each other per location, that maybe some of you should take a closer look. Especially in color variations! WOW!!!!! And these are natural bog plants we are talking here, not man made. You are missing something I think, Bruce, but your points are still well put, and food for thought. And one other point, Jerry's Long County minor is vastly different from my Horry County, South Carolina minor. I would not have known that except for getting a location specimen from Judith Finn at the UC Berkeley Botanical Garden. Bruce, there are many differences. Check closer!!



    45 yrs. growin\'
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  5. #45

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    Posted again!
    45 yrs. growin\'
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  6. #46
    herenorthere's Avatar
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    Of course some people care about location data. Many of them appear in this forum and I'm one too. But we're a drop in the bucket that's the CP market.

    What I said was that most people who grow CPs must not care about location data. Otherwise Dean and other good vendors would see a benefit to including it with their listings. I also said most poachers probably don't aim to sell to people who care about location data.

    My comments were a response to those who've said the ABG encourages poaching by not propagating and distributing plants from their Georgia leuc site to people who'd want one from that location. If a poacher plunders that site tonight, I think the plants will be appearing as anonymous leucs in garden centers or florists. They certainly won't be labeled as being the last Georgia leucs.

    It would be nice if the ABG would propagate some Georgia leucs for us, but they see their role as being something else. And they do that something else very well.
    Bruce in CT

    Madness is something rare in individuals but in groups, parties, peoples, ages it is the rule. Friedrich Nietzsche

  7. #47

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    Bruce, Thanks for clarifying. And you are right! ABG is very good at what they do.
    45 yrs. growin\'
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  8. #48
    SirKristoff is a poopiehead Ozzy's Avatar
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    I have been really busy in the last few days and I have not been able to keep track with this thread. So, I'm not going to be able to answer every post that I wanted to. I just want to say that sometimes I get a little too excited and words come out before I have a chance to see how it will sound. I think that may have been the case with my replies in the thread. I didn't mean anybody to take anything I said as personal attacks.
    While I agree that development is the biggest theat to cp's by far, we can't ignore or pretend that another threat don't exist. It does and I've seen the damage it caused. Poachers probably won't take the whole site. But they will take the biggest best looking plants. Greatly reducing the gene pool of that site. It will take years for the seedlings of the colorful plants to start producing seeds again. I know that most of you don't want to believe that it is as bad as it is. I know that you don't want to believe that you have ever bought a poached plant. I am sure that every one of us that have a meduim to large collection have at least one poached plant. I have many. The damage from poaching goes alot farther than the empty holes in the ground. It shrinks the gene pool and after repeated poachings can cause inbreeding of the site. Then you have weaker plants that can't fight the overgrowth caused by fire surpression, or drier conditions caused by nearby development.
    Now about the disscussion of ABG's rules of protecting the site. Personaly I think that if they shared some seeds it would do alot of good. But I'm speaking from total ignorance of their mission. I don't know thier rules or the reasons for those rules. But futher more I know what their end result is and I trust their judgement.




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