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Thread: Poachers

  1. #1

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    I was just curious as to anyone could shed some light on poaching. It seems there is at least some concern over poaching, as evidenced by the thread about leucos in Georgia. I was wondering where these plants end up. Believe me, I am a nut for pitcher plants and there is probably not a week that goes by where I'm not on the net looking for any I don't have yet. I would like to think I have found every possible site that has pitcher plants for sale. To the best of my knowledge, every plant I've found for sale on the net is not poached, but cultivated. Is there really that big of a poaching business for these plants? It seems that you can get just about anything from the net nowadays, at reasonable costs. I understand a lot of the poaching is probably for the floral industry, but is there that big of a demand? I don't ever recall walking into a florist and seeing sarracenia bouquets, or if you go to 1800flowers.com or someplace like that, I don't ever recall seeing sarracenia in their arrangements. maybe it's a southern thing, as i am in the midwest.

    is there anyone out there who actually knows "what goes down" with pitcher plant poaching, as far as how many are poached, where they end up, amount of $$ being made; not implying you are a poacher of course, and certainly not that i am looking to get into the business!!

  2. #2
    N=R* fs fp ne fl fi fc L Pyro's Avatar
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    I know with the GA leuco it isn't so much a money matter (though ABG has been offered huge sums of money but collectors for specimens. ABG will not sell the plants however.) Mostly it is a status thing. A person thinks they are top line if they have a GA leuco because it comes from a highly protected site and is therefore a prize plant. I have seen the GA leucos and I admit they are fantastic looking and have some remarkable features. But if you grow a batch of leuco from seed you will probably get plants that display the same features. It is all a name thing with the GA leuco: 'I have it and you don't!!' It is rediculus and even a bit sad that people (even well respected people in the community) would consider poaching the site just to say they have that one plant from that one place.
    'My love was science- specifically biology and, more specifically, when placed in a common jar, which of two organisms would devour the other.'

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  3. #3
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    Some really good points have been made. I think people are starting to ask questions that need to be asked. The GA leuco site is likely the last GA site, not from poaching, but, habitat destruction. The most serious threat that these plants face in the wild is not from poachers but, from habitat destruction. As Pyro mentioned, there are some growers that only want something rare, no matter what it looks like. These growers/collectors could be a potential threat to a small, rare site like the GA leuco site. The only way to eliminate this threat is to flood the market with product. The plants generated from just 2 seedpods from that site could satisfy any existing demand and eliminate pressure on the site. The efforts of Dr.Rice should be congratulated for being one of the first to realize this offer alabamensis from 3 different sites. This must have been a tremendous effort but, should continue.
    I'll state it again. Beyond the small threat from collectors, there really isn't much threat to these plants from poachers. Tissue culture propagation has become a stable, inexpensive source of cp and eliminated the desire to strip an entire site. Rumors of sites being entirely poached are false and based upon inaccuracies and misinformation. The days of mass poaching are long gone. Sarracenia has made a significant observation. There is talk of poaching but, where are the plants being sold? Efforts to protect these plants in the wild should be based upon accurate information.
    imduff

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    Hi Pyro,
    Thats the basic problem even with botanical gardens holding onto and not distributing plants. Sarracenias are easily propagated even en mass. Here in England Kew gardens had possibly the only example of a blue and white topped (its true!) leucophylla and refused to share it. It was killed by new staff with tap water..
    Plants need conserving in collections and also need to be distributed to ensure continued survival even though the original stands may have been destroyed years ago (exapmple, flava 'Burgundy' and flava 'Claret' were originally field collected before the sites were destroyed).
    Most of my plants have location details, but when I sell or swap plants they are always from divisions; I make sure I have at least 3 plants of the same clone before I release spares. In this way, individual plants need never be lost.
    Best Regards

    Mike King

    NCCPG National collection holder of Sarracenia

    http://www.carnivorousplants.uk.com

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    Thanks for that input, Mike. That is what the NASC is all about. We get the plants everyone wants, sow the seed, and ship 2 or 3 year old babies to whomever wants them. The whole idea was to flood the market, and make their value nil. And at the same time, everyone gets what they are looking for---locale species. We will eventually get started, but Casper (the Prez!) is still hard at it in Florida and anywhere else where help is necessary. We cannot get started fast enough! Imduff is absolutely correct in his statement that the habitats are being lost more to development than any poacher could ever collect. We should be up and running by the end of this year, and I hope that we can stand up to the task, and get everyone what they are in need of. And the sooner the better!
    45 yrs. growin\'
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  6. #6
    SirKristoff is a poopiehead Ozzy's Avatar
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    I want to add my two cents worth to this.
    No question, habitat destruction is the greatest threat, but poaching is a problem. I guess being from big cp area, I see more of it than others.
    I've said this before, There are two types of poachers. One wants to have the plant to grow and the other wants to make money.
    The collector poacher has already been discussed so I'll discuss the greed poacher.
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]I was wondering where these plants end up.
    If you think about what the motive of the poacher, I think it'll answer your questions. The motive is to make as much money as fast as he can. So that should tell you that they are going to find the best market for the product. There are two very profitable markets for cp's. One is the novelty market. They sell the plants in stores where no growing instructions are given and 95% of these plants will be dead in a month. The second market is of course us. We buy the poached plants.
    Like I said I have personally seen quite a few poaching cases. I use to sell cp's. I bought them from a greenhouse that I later found out that they field collect. After I found that out I did some research on them and found out that they bought a permit from the state that gives them legal rights to collect cp's. The permit cost them $1. I call it a poaching permit. There is nothing that I can think of that can be done to them. It's really legalized poaching.
    Another case is hundreds of vft were stolen from a state park only to turn up being sold on ebay.
    I bought some vfts from ebay once, the guy threw in a nice S.purpurea for free. I was told later that he was a big poacher.
    I was told by a park ranger that there was a cp convention in Asheville NC a day after the convention a local S. oreo site was completely stripped of every plant.
    You can't tell me that poached plants don't make it into our collections. A member on the cp listserv posted a pic of a S.rubra, wanting to know if anybody could tell it's origin. I could tell it was from the greenhouse that use to buy from because of the soil mixture and the pot type. Just last month me and Nick Hubbell was at a store in Toledo OH and I saw a display of vft's and it was from the same greenhouse.
    Whenever you buy a plant it is your responsibility to find out if it's poached. Remember we are the biggest market for poached cp's.

  7. #7
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    "Remember we are the biggest market for poached cp's. "

    that reall hit hard, i never thought about it but your right!

  8. #8

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    how exaclty do you figure it out? I mean... anybody could just lie (maybe except nurseries) and tell us that they grew it.
    Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish-Euripides
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