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Stratifying again

I'm surprised that it is suggested to stratify for 3-4 weeks. I thought it would be longer(like 2 months or so). So when you remove the seeds from stratification...will they need light and warmth right away for this "head start"?
 
I have no direct experience, but I always try to think of what they are experiencing in nature. Photoperiod gradually goes in one direction or the other. Temperature waffles in one or the other. We don't always follow nature's cues and often get away with it.
 
I tend to stratify for 5 weeks and then hit them with warmth and light. This gives a clear signal that 'spring' has arrived so maximise germination speed in theory.
 
I stratify for about 4 weeks (I simply say if I'm putting them in the fridge on December 5 I'll take them out on January 5), and then place them under lights.

As far as the short time, think about this - in the wild, zone 8, range of pitcher plants, the temperature changes (often warming quite a bit) during the winter. Because of the refrigerator's highly-stable temperature, a shorter period of cold is required. What matters is the hours below a certain temperature - farmers growing certain tree-based crops count hours of cold during the winter to see how much dormancy their trees have actually received.
 
Stratification rates of sarracenia species (approx % germinated after 35 days)

S. purp ssp. purp
2 weeks 50%
4 weeks 78%
6 weeks 82%

S. rubra
2 weeks 30%
4 weeks 58%
6 weeks 28%

S. leucophylla
2 weeks 40%
4 weeks 60%
6 weeks 35%

S. purp ssp. venosa var. burkii
2 weeks 55%
4 weeks 58%
6 weeks 55%

S. minor
2 weeks 40%
4 weeks 60%
6 weeks 70%

S. alata
2 weeks 68%
4 weeks 80%
6 weeks 78%

S. flava
2 weeks 40%
4 weeks 80%
6 weeks 70%

S. rubra ssp. jonesii
2 weeks 30%
4 weeks 40%
6 weeks 40%

S. psittacina
2 weeks 40%
4 weeks 38%
6 weeks 40%
 
So I've got some Sarracenia (and Drosera) seeds coming by mail that I want to start this year... The instructions they come with say to plant them and then place them in an unheated garage or shed in January or February until April. This seems just a little long to me, especially given that nice chart from Alvin. Any thoughts?
Also, I was planning to sow my seeds in some live sphagnum, as the instructions suggest, but won't two months of darkness kill the moss? Why does it need to be a garage or shed - is darkness important as well as cool, moist conditions? I have a feeling that the garage or shed is more for wind protection; could I get away with keeping them in an unheated plastic-covered miniature greenhouse?
Thanks.
~Joe
 
Hi Joe

You can indeed plant them outside and let them stratify naturally. They should sprout when it gets warmer in April or May. The constant warming and cooling means that it may take a couple of months for the chemicals that inhibit growth to break down, but that it what would happen in nature. The 2/4/6 week stratification period is just a guide for impatient people like me who want them to get going as soon as possible under growlights.

Darkness doesn't affect the stratification, so you can keep them either dark or light. The moss may die back in the dark (which can be an advantage so that it doesn't cover the seeds), but it will grow back in spring. Remember that peat is just dead broken down sphagnum moss, and the main reason for using moss is so that there is more air getting to the roots, which can speed up seedling growth.

However, using live moss can be a big problem because it grows much faster than the seedlings can. I recommend using the live moss and covering the top with a fine layer of peat.
 
So, when you say the moss grows faster than the seedlings, do you mean that the seeds will get smothered, or just that it'll take longer for the new plants to show because the moss will be progressively covering them up? I certainly don't want to plant on something that would outcompete what I'm trying to grow.
Thanks again
~Joe

PS - Giving my seeds constant cold will help then stratify faster, right? So if I were going to stratify artificially, when should I aim to have the seedlings outside (what kind of average temperature, etc.?) Could I raise some under lights for the first year?
 
The seedlings will get smothered if you use live moss I've found. For the first couple of years I tried sarracenia seedling I had to pluck out the excess moss every month or so, which was very fiddly!
So I now stick to moss but with a thin layer of peat on the top.

Giving the seeds constant cold in a fridge will let you stratify them in 4 or 5 weeks, the minimum length possible really. You could do a mixture, keeping some outside and letting them germinate naturally in spring and stratifying some in the fridge and starting them inside under lights.

I would put the seedlings out when the average max temperature is about 15 or 16C. Say during late April. They're pretty tough anyway.
 
  • #10
Just to clarify... peat on top of live moss, or dead moss? How much moss should I cover?
And yeah, I think I will do some indoors and some outdoors, just to cover all my bases. Will my indoor seedlings get upset if they go from the fridge to my mid-70's apartment without any transition?
~Joe
 
  • #11
The peat can go on either live or dead moss. I would just put a very thin layer on top, just so that you can't see any of the moss so that it can't grow again.

I'm a bit confused by you saying your seedlings are in the fridge?
 
  • #12
Hmm....so I have maybe 1 week left?
 
  • #13
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Alvin Meister @ Dec. 18 2004,5:12)]I'm a bit confused by you saying your seedlings are in the fridge?
I mean, if I stratify the seeds in the fridge, and then start the seedlings under lights in my warm apartment, will the rapid change in conditions harm them?
~Joe
 
  • #14
Never bothered mine. They will take time to acclimate to their conditions, then pop and grow. I put mine from the fridge, onto a heated seed pad. They come up when they are ready to come up, usually 4 to six weeks.
 
  • #15
Good to hear. So what kind of container do you use on top of the seed pad, Bugweed? I was thinking about getting one of those little germinating kits with peat pots and the little greenhouse and heating pad, and using the peat and greenhouse to start some sphagnum while putting the heating pad beneath some regular containers and drip trays.
~Joe
 
  • #16
An undrained rectangular container with a clear plastic top. Seals fairly well. Rheostat set at 85 degrees at the base. Soil (straight peat moss) 2" deep and 75 to 78 dgrees at 1/2 inch depth. Red lid alatas, and oreophila are in, planted in September. Bottom heat really gives them a shot in the behind, so to speak. You can grow sarracenia seeds straight through for 2 winters from seed without ill effects to the plants. 3rd winter absolutely must have dormancy, or you may lose plants. They will mature earlier from this treatment, blooming anywhere from 3 to 5 years instead of the usual 5 to 7 years. Bottom heat gives them a real push to gain size. I have had many species anywhere from 10" to 14 " tall in one to one and a half years. A friend of mine in Texas uses the same method, and at the beginning of the year, sent me an alata "black pubescent" form from Mississippi. On arrival, after one years growth, the alata was 14" tall. By the end of this growing season, it is hovering around 18" to 22" tall. I expect flowers in two years.
 
  • #17
Wow... This is definitely something I'll try! I've got some Darlingtonia seeds coming in soon too - would this work for them?
Thanks again!
~Joe
 
  • #18
Darlingtonia would boil under those conditions. They will start, but heat for darlingtonia is another story. Some can handle some amount of heat, but, the majority are used to growing in cold rhizome conditions, water temps 55 to 70 degreesF. Occasionally you will find one that will depart from the norm, and take warmer conditions. Don't count on it though, and thank your lucky stars when you do find one that will.
 
  • #19
So do you mean to say that they won't take heat at all (both the seeds and plants,) or that once they've sprouted they should be given cooler temperatures? I've been told that they have sensitive root systems which need a regular supply of cool water in the warmer months.
Thanks for all this clarification, it's going to save me a lot of grief when it comes time to start these seeds.
~Joe
 
  • #20
Alvin: Are those figures personal experience-some elses personal experience...or what? Quite impressive.
 
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