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Thread: Captan fungicide?

  1. #9
    chloroplast's Avatar
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    I completely agree that Captan may have a detrimental effect on the environment, based on other cidal agents displaying an overwhelming trend towards this end. However, this is obviously just my opinion and it must be supported by objective data before specific environmental hazard statements are made for Captan.

    However, I was under the impression that we were discussing Captan's potential effects on human health.

    Where I must respectfully disagree with you is on the effects of Captan on human health. Anecdotal evidence, to me, can never be strong enough to issue specific statements on any agent's effect on human health. Scientific studies must be conducted in vitro and on animal models, and even when an agent is found to have an effect in vitro or on animals, this must be supported by human clinical trials (or, in the instance of toxicology studies, by appropriate epidemiological analyses). Admittedly, these things take long periods of time and money, but they are necessary as official health impact statements have a profound impact on people's lives, regulatory agencies, healthcare systems, and industry.

    I also totally agree with you that we all have a huge personal responsibility to restrict the use of most cidal agents and, when using them, to abide by all personal and environmental safety regulations. We only have one planet earth!

    Regards,

    PS: I hope the moderators and our fellow CPers will indulge us on this interesting discussion. My apologies in advance if I got this topic a little off track!

    [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/smile.gif[/img]
    Secretary, New England Carnivorous Plant Society (NECPS) http://www.necps.org/
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    Member, North American Sarracenia Conservancy (NASC)
    Member, The Carnivorous Plant Society (CPS)

  2. #10

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    It's been my experience that most folks pull a product off the shelves as a quick fix, drop it in their cart, and take it home to spray away with wild and reckless abandon. I used to be one of these people. I wonder what the statistics are regarding how many people actually use products consistent with the labeling? That would most certainly be an interesting study now wouldn't it. I doubt seriously if you and I will ever see research such as that. Scary to think of what such a study would reveal.

    Regarding these comments,
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]a huge personal responsibility to restrict the use of most cidal agents and, when using them, to abide by all personal and environmental safety regulations. We only have one planet earth
    I love what you wrote. One concern, how many people know what a cidal agent is unless they run across a thread like this where a topic gets a little off track. Thank you for getting off track chloroplast. We don't live in a bubble and what you do affects me and what I do affects you.

  3. #11

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    The original poster wanted help about using Captan for his infected Sarras. The books mention that Captan is safe to use on Sarras.

    The studies done use rats to infer safety or hazards for humans. The results can only make inferences upon human safety.

    Pharmaceutical drug studies for humans are conducted using animals. Many drugs are approved that are safe in the animal studies that later turn out to be unsafe for humans. Many drugs that are dangerous for animals are safe for humans.

    It is fantasy to state with certainty that negative results from animal studies will carry over dangers to humans in every case.

    The large amounts of chemicals that animals are exposed to in the studies would equate to that animal living many multiple of times its normal life expectancy. Not to mention the extremely high dosages of the chemical that a human would have to be exposed to equate with the animal study. The animals are not given "normal exposure" doses. They are given extremely high doses.

    I would be more concerned about the dangers of cancer-causing nitrates from potato chips or grilled steaks than the dangers of nanogram exposure to Captan.

    The dangers of silicosis from perilite cause me more concern. When I used to use it, there was always a cloud of fine dust that could be easily inhaled.

    That and the study that someone did demonstrating that perilite has a weak electrical charge that disrupts root growth in Nepenthes. I think it might be the same for Sarracenia. I no longer use it for these reasons.

    If it is so dangerous for rats, why is it not marketed as "Raptan Poison™"? Because the rat's great, great, great grandratlings would die of old age before they could eat the truckload required to kill them....

    I wish I had the last 30 minutes of my life back.

    Tweek
    \"The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.\" - EInstein

  4. #12

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    Well well tweek, I for one thank you for taking a half hour to post what you did. I still have fits of the giggles over "Raptan Poison™". That was pretty good. Will you be marketing Raptan Poison™ any time in the near future?

  5. #13
    Nepenthes Specialist nepenthes gracilis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (LauraZ5 @ June 22 2005,11:39)]It's been my experience that most folks pull a product off the shelves as a quick fix, drop it in their cart, and take it home to spray away with wild and reckless abandon. I used to be one of these people.
    Or the people that do that do it because they know what they are looking for.

    I bought Captan because it works. So what if it carcinogenic? I know smokers who have smoked since they were 17yrs. old and haven't been diagnosed with cancer yet. I don't think a little fungicide is going to hurt you. People who chew tobacco are in the same boat, been doing it for a looong time and haven't been diagnosed. The sporadic usage of a specific fungicide shouldn't hurt one, unless you sleep next to it, but I wouldn't reccommend the use of it in ones household, luckily I have a greenhouse and use it there only.

  6. #14

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    Most folks Dustin, not all. You're the exception to the rule but there are other gardeners who also take the time to educate themselves. You may be familiar with what's out there and what works and exactly what you want but the vast majority of people are clueless. Watch people select their products the next time you are at WalMart. I've watched and am amazed. I saw one woman walk out with the entire front portion of her shopping cart full. She must have had 5-6 different products. No exaggeration either, the entire basket to her cart was full of sprays and powders and concentrates. I asked her why so many and she said, "My roses caught something and I don't want them to die". My reply with a smile, "Oh, looks as if you have everything covered". Her reply, "God, I sure hope so". Not much more you can do other than to exchange pleasantries.

    I don't use Captan or other products like it if at all possible as I don't believe they are safe. I also don't like storing them here whether it be under the kitchen sink or out in the garage. I do have kids and sometimes the only thing separating them from life and death is me. Regarding the Captan, it's the cumulative effects that concern me and I truly don't believe there is enough information out there to make me comfortable using them at this time. I may be 100% wrong but for now, I'd like to continue steering clear of them until at such point in time as we know more. I don't have a greenhouse but maybe someday I will have one and I would still steer clear of these products even if I had one. If you don't mind my asking, why wouldn't you reccommend the use of Captan in one's household but the greenhouse is ok?

  7. #15
    Nepenthes Specialist nepenthes gracilis's Avatar
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    The greenhouse has an exhaust fan in it and I turn it on when using dusts and powders, even the strong smelling Isotox (acephate Orthenex) and it vents all of that outside. Even after application, the fan still runs for cooling and its generally not a threat to be in the greenhouse. In ones house, there is virtually no air movement, unless you have an attic fan or many fans running constantly with windows open round the clock.

  8. #16

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    Captan is a very effective fungicide. It still scares the poo out of me.

    Common garden sulphur. It's also an effective fungicide. Sulphur doesn't scare the poo out of me, though I am careful (dust mask, long sleeves, long pants, eye protection) when I use it.

    I planted some sweet corn with the enhanced SE gene a couple of years ago..all the seed had been treated with Captan, and dyed pink, and I used rubber gloves to handle the seed.

    And people wonder why I'm against testing things on animals. Animals aren't people, are they?
    \"People place their hand on the Bible and swear to uphold the Constitution; they don't put their hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible,\" Jamie Raskin, to Senator Nancy Jacobs.

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