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Thread: What must i know to grow sarracenia's well?

  1. #25

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    Okay, what's done is done. I'm sure you're not the kind of person who would poach sarracenia, but the kind of information below from Barry Meyers-Rice's page is what makes most people's reaction so negative.



    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ] often encounter people who cite habitat destruction as justification to collect plants, but this is usually a transparent attempt to soothe the conscience of the collector (akin to robbing a bank because someone else will probably do it sooner or later too). The much-cited scenario of collecting plants just before the evil bulldozers arrive is extremely rare
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Why can't I collect plants if the land they live on is being destroyed anyway?

    I grant you, if I were exploring a carnivorous plant site and I saw the area was in the act of being destroyed, I would certainly contact the site foreman and ask for permission to collect on that site. Then I would take every darn plant I could find and distribute them to other growers. I would also contact every sympathetic person I knew to help me.
    But that cartoon scenario rarely happens.
    What more often happens is that I am at some carnivorous plant site and see "For Sale" signs on the land (at prices I certainly cannot afford). There might even be signs saying that a new mall, etc., will soon be built on that very site. This is not yet a case that justifies field collection. Why? Because how do you know what is planned for those plants? Probably they are going to be killed. But it is very possible that a rescue mission through a land restoration group (local carnivorous plant society, botanical garden, or land management agency) already has plans to salvage those plants. Before you go digging, it is your legal and moral responsibility to contact the land owners. It is also possible that the very people who are buying the land are going to save it for the value of the natural habitat!
    I was visiting one Darlingtonia pitcher plant site and found that it was going to be logged. I talked to the owners. I talked to their forester. I talked to the people responsible for reviewing the timber harvesting plan. I solicited faxes, phone calls, and letters from the internet. In the end, acting as an agent of the International Carnivorous Plant Society I was able to help influence the harvest plan to spare the site. This kind of activity is vastly more productive than just shrugging and ripping a few plants out of the ground for a private collection. And could you imagine what my righteous fury would have been if I discovered collectors tramping about the site and poaching plants during this time, citing logging as an excuse for their behavior?
    I would have buried their bodies in the peat---downstream of course, since I would not want to affect the nutrient load leading into the bog. Decaying bodies have a lot of nutrients in them, so I have discovered. I mean, so I am told.

    So be careful where you collect, even if it seems apparent the land is going to be destroyed.
    So this is now a rescue mission if there are any other S. minors surviving. How's the site looking now?
    Could you please repost details in the Conservation Thread where people will be able to advise on what to do next. If there are lots to be saved then they might be able to help organize a few people to get down there and help.

    Sorry that your thread has deviated from what you intended cockatielmother.
    Alexis Vallance, U.K.
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  2. #26
    Moderator Schmoderator Fluorescent fluorite, England PlantAKiss's Avatar
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    It would indeed be more helpful in this discussion to 1) have a new thread in the Conservation Station forum 2) have some pictures of the area to document the situation. Perhaps trying to find the landowner and get legal permission to collect the plants (ONLY if it is true its about to be developed) to be distributed to conservation growers.

    Field collecting CPs is always an inflammatory topic. People here are very passionate about this issue and with good reason. I think the way you phrased it didn't help. You sure didn't start out with a full explanation of how you got the plants.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Everytime I see a pitcher plant, it is growing in very dry conditions. .....I grabbed a hand full to grow in my house
    "I grabbed a hand full..." doesn't SOUND like rescue of endanged plants with permission.



    "Fox terriers are born with about four times as much original sin in them as other dogs." - Jerome K. Jerome

  3. #27
    Lord Humungus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]"I grabbed a hand full..." doesn't SOUND like rescue of endanged plants with permission.
    I know, the rest are out side in buckets. As for conservation, don't bother, the area where we found them is now whiped out.
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]hey buddy don't get an attitude. Ozzy is one of the best people here.
    Guess you did not read his thread. Good people don't level charges like that about some one they don't even know.

    Ozzy, you got my info, start making some calls. One more thing PAL, don't ban me. Go into your SQL and delete me completely.

    ------------
    Edit: offensive emoticon deleted.



    I'm still living off the corpse of the old world.

  4. #28
    Let's positive thinking! seedjar's Avatar
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    Dude, that's totally out of line. Ozzy isn't being quick to level allegations at you, he's just being quick to say what we were all thinking this whole time. If you can't understand how you came off as suspicious, aggressive and cocky or why we might be concerned, as a community of CP lovers and conservationists, then you really shouldn't be here. The fact that you have shown yourself incapable of being at all graceful about this 'misunderstanding' makes you look all the more guilty. As for calling Ozzy's character into question, your words are falling on deaf ears - anyone who's been here for more than a month has almost certainly seen the results of Ozzy's tireless dedication to CP conservation and the forums, and that says a lot more than a few suspect posts about saving some plants that you didn't even bother to mention to the experienced conservationists that abound here.
    Cockatielmother, I'm very sorry you had to see all this ugliness on your thread.
    ~Joe

    PS - Looking at Ozzy's post, he didn't even accuse you of lying. He merely pointed out what was suspicious about your story. If you want someone to call you a liar, leave it to me; if your name is Roy J. Miller, why do you refer to yourself as Ray in your profile and on your website? Yes, you just get more credible by the minute.
    o//~ Livin' like a bug ain't easy / My old clothes don't seem to fit me /
    I got little tiny bug feet / I don't really know what bugs eat /
    Don't want no one steppin' on me / Now I'm sympathizin' with fleas /
    Livin' like a bug ain't easy / Livin' like a bug ain't easy... o//~

  5. #29
    Moderator Schmoderator Fluorescent fluorite, England PlantAKiss's Avatar
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    There is no need for the attitude. You did not make yourself clear in the beginning. You left yourself open for some roasting. Just as you say Ozzy and others are making charges about something they know nothing about, neither have you offered any substantiation of your claims. That's not to say its not true but your own statement in the beginning was NOT reassuring. It does come off as you just grabbing some free Sarracenia. FACT remains the plants you have were collected illegally, though perhaps with good intentions.

    Ozzy nor anyone else is going to "ban" you. Best scenario is, instead of getting so P.O.'ed over people's response, take it as lesson learned about plant conservation.

    And do NOT post any more offensive emoticons. That IS against the rules here.

    Either continue to discuss this in the Conservation Station as a learning tool for others in what to do to save endangered plants...or DROP the ATTITUDE and topic. We highjacked poor Cockatielsmother's topic. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/confused.gif[/img]

    Thanks. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/smile.gif[/img]
    "Fox terriers are born with about four times as much original sin in them as other dogs." - Jerome K. Jerome

  6. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]I know, the rest are out side in buckets. As for conservation, don't bother, the area where we found them is now whiped out.
    Sounds like you've got some nice plants there. Would you consider giving them away to members here, as has been done with the Crestview rescue gulfensis plants?
    Alexis Vallance, U.K.
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  7. #31
    SirKristoff is a poopiehead Ozzy's Avatar
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    I hate to keep this thing going but I feel the need to at least make a response.


    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ] level charges like that about some one they don't even know.
    First of all I didn't "level any charges". Everything I wrote was my opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. Not once did I say you poached the plants. I did point out some things that just didn't seem right to me. I also said what I felt happened. I'm entitled to my opinion and I'll post my opinion anytime I want.
    Now let me post my opinion about your last post.

    Now all of a sudden, the bulldozer operator is now your friend.

    Why don't you post pics of the site and pics of the plants in the buckets? If you're telling the truth, then I'll head down there this weekend and help you dig them up and pot them. If you want to do the right thing I'll help you mail them out to other members so that these plant survive.

    I would love to be proven wrong here. Nothing would please me more.
    Oh yeah getting defensive everytime somebody questions your motive is another sign that you're hiding something.
    There also is no need to post a smiley that shows your IQ points with his fingers. I thing we all can see that clearly.

    Ozzy The Moderator

    PS. I'm just saying what everybody here is thinking anyway.




  8. #32

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    God this thread is just like a football game.

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