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Do my fish have Ick?

  • Thread starter Trapper7
  • Start date

Trapper7

Loves VFT's!
I noticed some small white spots on two of my fish. It's not on their body, only on their fins. I read that ick is on the body, but I only see it on the fins so far. Here is a pic. I have altered the color of the fish so you can see the spots easier. I also put "here" where the spots are. Anyone know? Also, if it is Ick, and I get some Rid-Ick for them, will it save them or is it too late? I read that once you see the spots, it is too late and the fish will probably die :(

Edit: I just noticed that there is one small spot on the body of one fish.

NEW.jpg
 
I would say it does look like Ich to me. I also would try to buy and start treating with an Ich Treatment as soon as possible. The sooner you start treatment the better chance of saving the fish. If it is only on the fins and just STARTING to progress to the body right now there is a much better chance of saving the fish than if the body and gills were covered all over too. Plus I think the Ich treatment bottles you can buy easily at a petshop or even somewhere like meijers is pretty inexpensive. Especially if you have a tank of more than just those two fish, chances are the other fish would also develop Ick symptoms and if you don't treat them and lose everybody it would be alot more expensive to restock the tank than buy a bottle of Ick treatment for a few bucks ( I would guess around $5 as a rough estimate based on the last time I was fish supply shopping a while ago).

I know another tip to try while treatment with chemicals is that Ick is sometimes caused by a drop to cooler temps so make sure your heater is working well and if it is one you can manually adjust to increase temps a little bit that is supposed to help too. My heater was not adjustable so I couldn't really try that.

Really the only time I had Ick problems was when I bought new fish from a store only to find them a little later their Ick symptoms show. Good luck, I have never tried treating Tiger Barbs so I don't know if they respond well to treatment but I wish you the best.
 
Thank you, allegedhuman :) I have four Tiger Barbs and only two have it so far. I will get some Rid-Ick asap. I do have an adjustable heater and I just turned it up. It got pretty cold here (I'm in FL) the last two nights and I noticed the thermometer in the tank was a lot lower, so maybe that's what happened. Thanks again!
 
I guess a temp drop or just getting new fish from a store which had less than ideal conditions already are the two most common ways to encounter Ick. I hate it :censor:

Excellent that you can try increasing the temp a little bit just be careful you don't crank it up TOO much and cook the fish instead. I think 76 deg F is sorta a common temp for tropical fish so make sure it is somewhere in that range depending on how far it dropped due to the change in temperature but don't overdo it and end up with cooked tiger barbs...
Maybe over several hours bump it up a degree or so at a time depending on how much it needs to be increased?

I really don't know exactly how to handle increasing the temp but however much needs to be increased I'd do it slowly.

Hope everybody pulls through.
 
I think they're dying. They're really not looking so spiffy :( This isn't good, I wouldn't be suprised if one of them will be dead by tomorrow morning. He's looking bad :(
 
It looks like ick to me, but I haven't had ich (in my experience) kill a fish that quickly and I've been keeping fish for 22 years. Your tank seems fairly new, right? With the talk of bubbles on the top and with a fish dying, you need to test your water. It may not have established biological filtration yet and you may have high ammonia levels in the water.

Just a suggestion...

Will
 
I bought the tank and set it up a week before I got fish for it. (So I've had the tank up and running for 2 weeks now and just got fish for it last weekend). I got all the test kits for it and everything is ok except for the PH. It simply won't go down! I called the pet store twice (after putting close to 80 drops of PH decreaser into the tank and nothing happening) and they told me, both times, that here in FL we live on a bed of limerock and that everybody's PH is out of whack. They told me to stop the decreaser drops because the fish should be ok, and if after 80 drops and still nothing happening, it should be ok. Ummm....ok then. I read that these fish need the PH to be at 7.2 and every time I check it's at 7.6 or higher, because the color coded thing doesn't go past 7.6, so I don't know if it's higher. The store said I should only worry when the fish start to show signs of being ill, they didn't say anything about white spots though. Right now, the fish are looking a lot better and they're acting more frisky, also their stripes are a nice dark black again, but a few hours ago they were green-ish. I don't know what to do about the PH. It's not like the fish know they're in FL and that they are ok because the store said so. Oh, I don't have any real shells in there, so that's not the cause for the PH. I'm still going to get the Rid-Ich, but after that, I don't know what to do.
 
You just bought the tank 2 weeks ago and added fish after one week?

I guarantee that your tank is not cycled properly yet. What test kit are you using to check your water chemistry? IME the most accurate ones are the ones that use the drops, those dip and read stick ones are iffy at best.

Did you add anything to help jumpstart the cycling process? Filter media from an established tank? Biospira? Anything? If not, you have more issues than just a possible ich outbreak. If your test kit is showing 0 ppm readings on ammonia, and nitrites, with only 2 weeks of cycle time then I would seriously question the quality of your test kit.

I recommend the API Master Freshwater test kit, available at any of the big box pet stores (around $25-30). Make sure you follow exactly the directions on how to do each test. Some of the bottles of solution MUST be shaken vigorously for 30-60 seconds in order for you to get truely accurate results.

When did you last test your water? On a new tank like yours I would suggest testing daily untill you get everything on track. Levels can spike quite quickly in a newly set up tank. There are a plethera of products out there that claim to help control ammonia, nitrites and nitrates, but honestly I think they are all just "snake oil".

Test your water today. I would suggest changing about 25% of the water today. Start religiously monitoring your water chemistry. Keeping a log book of your results will give you clear information as to where your tank is going with its cycle. It should take between 6-8 weeks to fully cycle.

Ph is probably less of a concern than you think. you can keep buffering it to bring it down, but IME that is usually more harmfull than just leaving it be. That constant up-down-up-down swing is very stressfull to fish and will ultimately kill them faster than if you just leave the ph a tad on the high end.

Good luck
Steve

EDIT: One other thing. Do you have a small treatment tank where you can move the fish to while you treat the ich? Years ago when I had ich in my 10 gallon tank I used rid-ich to treat the whole tank... the treatment stuff stained all of the air tubes, UGF tubes, silicon, and plastic plants- blue. Better to stain a treatment tank than your main "show" tank.
 
Yes I got the tank two weeks ago and added fish a week later. I didn't know anything about the cycling part until I was at the pet store and the guy suggested hardy fish, like the Tiger Barbs.

I use the drip kits, not the dip test strips. It is by API.

I did not use anything to jumpstart the cycling process because I didn't know I had to. The guy at the store said that if I added hardy fish, that will do the trick and in 2-3 weeks, I can add more fish if I wanted.

I honestly thought that my test kit OR the decreaser had expired because of the Ph reading. The Decreaser has an experation date and it is good till 2012. The test kit solutions however do not have an experation date on it, which I thought was weird. I looked all over the box and on the solution bottles and it is not there.

I last checked the Ph yesterday and it had still not changed a bit. The person at the pet store said I shouldn't have to check it anymore because it wasn't going to change anyway. I'm starting to get the feeling, that the people at that pet store, don't know much.

I will do a 25% water change today. Just a question about water....can I use distilled water? My husband's coworker said that he used distilled water for his 250 gallon tank. Would I need to use the water condition for the distilled water?

The person at the pet store also told me that I am harming the fish by putting so much Ph decreaser in the tank, so that's why I stopped.

No I don't have an extra tank. I wasn't expecting so many problems with this one. I just wanted some nice, healthy fish in our room.

Thanks for all your help, Steve :)
 
  • #10
I didn't know anything about the cycling part until I was at the pet store and the guy suggested hardy fish, like the Tiger Barbs.

Your tank definately needs to cycle. Here is some reading on what the nitrogen cycle is and why its important. (as you can bet.. you have some homework to do.. just like with the CPs lol) nitrogen cycle


I did not use anything to jumpstart the cycling process because I didn't know I had to. The guy at the store said that if I added hardy fish, that will do the trick and in 2-3 weeks, I can add more fish if I wanted.

Do you have any friends with established tanks? If so maybe you can get youself some of their used filter media. That will introduce the bacteria you need to get the cycle rolling quickly. There is a product you can buy called "Biospira" I have read a lot of good things about this stuff actually. I have honestly never used it before, it is pricey, and there are many factors that can happen to cause it to fail before you even begin... BUT If its used correctly I have read good reviews on it. Personally I would see if I can get a bagfull of "seasoned" filter media for free first. ;)

I honestly thought that my test kit OR the decreaser had expired because of the Ph reading. The Decreaser has an experation date and it is good till 2012. The test kit solutions however do not have an experation date on it, which I thought was weird. I looked all over the box and on the solution bottles and it is not there.

API test kit bottles do not have an expiration date on them. They have a "Bottling Date" printed on them. Right near the "Lot #" Here is what to look for: the last 4 digits= bottled on date. In this case, Feb, 07. API website says that most solutions are good for 3 years from bottling or 1 year from opening.

bod.JPG



I last checked the Ph yesterday and it had still not changed a bit. The person at the pet store said I shouldn't have to check it anymore because it wasn't going to change anyway. I'm starting to get the feeling, that the people at that pet store, don't know much.

Go with that feeling. LFS employees are generally only interested in your spending money. If the fish die, thats good cause you will be back to buy more.... With that in mind.. here is some more homework ;)
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/water_chemistry.php
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/gh_kh_ph.php


I will do a 25% water change today. Just a question about water....can I use distilled water? My husband's coworker said that he used distilled water for his 250 gallon tank. Would I need to use the water condition for the distilled water?

I would not recommend using distilled or R/O water in a freshwater tank. Most FW fish need the minerals and hardness that comes from tap water. Get a bottle of Amquel and Novaqua and use those to condition your tapwater and use that. Make sure that you heat the water you are filling your tank with to as close to the tank water temp as possible. Those sudden temp changes are not only stressfull to fish, but can also cause parasitic outbreaks (like ich).

Good luck
Steve
 
  • #11
Steve, thanks for taking the time to post those links for me. The first one on Nitrogen cycle is great. Looks like I have some work to do, but I will try to keep it up and not lose faith.

I don't know anybody here in FL, so I don't have anyone who has tanks that I could borrow filter media from.

I looked at the lot number on my test kit solution bottles and the last 4 numbers were 1207, so it was bottled in December of last year, so it should be good then.

The last two articles are rather confusing for me. I'll try my best to understand it.

Thanks again for all your help
:)
 
  • #12
So I got some rid-ick. How long before it starts working? Should the white spots disapear fairly soon?
 
  • #13
I don't know how quickly you should expect the Ick to completely disappear but normally when you start treatment I usually thought that in a day or two no new spots should appear and then they should start to disappear as treatment progresses and the fish start to act livelier. But it has been a while since I treated Ich so my exact memory may not be the best guide. I just know you shouldn't count on an immediate cure, it will take several days or more. Is everybody still hanging in there?
 
  • #14
Thanks allegedhuman :) I've noticed that most of the white spots have gone away, but there is still one or two there. Also, you're right, the fish are a lot livelier! I've still got all four :) On the back of the bottle of the rid-ick it says that I can use it again in 24 hours from the the first dose, but I would need to do a 25% water change, because I don't want to overdose. I will not do it again tonight, since I can see an improvement, but maybe tomorrow night? I really don't want to if it's not needed. The stuff stained the silicon in the corners of the tank, but I think it looks neat, lol. Thanks again for your help! So does anyone think I should do another dose tomorrow night, or should I wait a little longer to see if the first dose cured it up?
 
  • #15
Hey that is great that you noticed such a dramatic change so quickly with only one treatment. That just means you must have caught it nice and early. I would definitely continue treatment every 24 hours like recommended on the bottle until all spots have disappeared, and even then a bit longer. It wouldn't be really spiffy to stop after only 1 day of treatment and then have the little Ich parasite buggers which barely survived rebounded their efforts once treatment stopped and it may be harder to kill and the fish would already be weakened after fighting the infection once before and may not bounce back as quickly.

Plus I thought that the Ich parasites have eggs/larvae/some kind of juvenile form which could survive in the tank off of the fish and even if your fish lack all of those spots there could be some "baby ich" hanging out in the tank which could attack the fish later when mature. I would check the bottle carefully and see if it has a recommended length of treatment and if not maybe check out some websites for suggestions as to how long to treat beyond when the spots disappear.

I think of it kinda like human medication, if you are taking antibiotics you are supposed to use ALL of what was prescribed and not just quit early because you *think* you feel better...

Really it is great that the little guys are hanging in there and acting perkier...hopefully the only damage which remains after this Ich episode is some stained silicon on the tank...(I still have a tank with blue corners too... :-))
 
  • #16
Aha, here is a website on the life cycle of Ich and some info on treatment.
http://novalek.com/kordon/articles/ich.htm

It says to treat for 7-9 days for short lived species of Ich and some Ich species need up to 2-4 weeks! Wow, that sounds a bit extreme to me and I wonder if the company is just trying to sell more of their treatment with such a long time period, I dunno ??? Maybe other people have greater experience with the length of time to treat but I think a week sounds reasonable if all the spots are gone. If spots still hang on that long then maybe you have one of the longer life cycle species and would actually need a couple of weeks?
 
  • #17
It says that one treatment is usually all it takes. But it says USUALLY so, maybe I should use it again since not all of the spots are gone. I will do it again now. Thanks for the link, it was really helpful! :)
 
  • #18
One fish took a turn for the worse over night. She has more white spots now and didn't eat this morning :( Usually they go crazy for food, and three of them did, but the fourth was just blah :(
 
  • #19
Now it looks like their fins are shedding! I still have all four, but one is still not doing well. Anybody have any ideas as to why their fins are shedding?
 
  • #20
Trapper,

If you're having problems with your fish and their fins are shedding, do you mean they look like they're losing their fins? Are they tattered on the edges? Any number of things could be causing ragged fins: they could be nipping at each other (tiger barbs are notorious for this), it could be a bacterial infection, or it could be ammonia burn. I'm not sure if you understood the nitrogen cycle or not, but here's a VERY simplified explanation:

Fish release waste into the water and it's full of ammonia. Ammonia is bad for fish, as in toxic. There are a variety of different kinds of bacteria that convert the ammonia into nitrite which is highly toxic to fish as well. Different types of bacteria then convert the nitrite into nitrate, which isn't as toxic but still not good for the fish. You have to let your tank cycle or give the bacteria time to grow. The bacteria won't grow without a food souce, ammonia, so they won't start growing until you introduce fish to the aquarium. So what happens is you put in fish, ammonia spikes, bacteria start growing, the ammonia drops, the nitrite spikes, bacteria start growing, the nitrite drops, and the nitrate starts to go up. Bacteria don't spontaneously generate, and the bacteria that break down all the ammonia and nitrite don't float around in the water...they attach to solid surfaces. If you bring in some gravel or old filter media from an established aquarium, that will bring the bacteria in and speed up the process. You can also buy products like Cycle or Biospira to help introduce the bacteria as well. Your tank has to go through a nitrogen cycle.

I'd politely disagree with not using RO water for fish. I used RO water in my discus tanks for years, but DO NOT use straight RO water. RO water has no minerals in it, it's close to being pure. The fish NEED minerals in the water. If you do use RO water, there are products (something like RO Right) that you can buy and add then necessary minerals back to the water. If you do that, feel free to use RO or distilled water. If not, stay away from using it. :)

As far as the pH stuff, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Many of those additives people use for adjusting pH are not good. They lower the pH temporarily, and then it shoots back up. The constant up and down of pH is extremely stressful on the fish and can send them into shock and they could die. If the pH is a little high or a little low, that's okay for most fish (including tiger barbs). The best bet is to just leave it be and they'll be fine I would think.

If you're still worried about not meeting their specific water requirements, then maybe shift how you're looking at it. Rather than match your water to the fish, match the fish to your water. If Florida is sitting on a bed of limestone, your water as you can see has a high pH and is probably pretty hard. That's ideal water conditions for many Rift Lake African Cichlids, and then you wouldn't have to worry much about the water, but cichlids come with their own issues. :)
 
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