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Blatantantly political discussion, but...

...hopefully constructive.

So, I can't say I've been politically active for very long. In fact, I'd have to admit that I'm one of those young'ns that Obama has inspired to emerge from disenfranchisement and try to participate in American democracy.

However, I'm being introduced the the fun dodge-parry-retort maneuvers of political debate on this forum in ways I'm not usually challenged with, be it from never being around heavily-political people or surrounded by people with similar views. I do have to commend this forum for showing me the blood-boiling world of differing political outlooks.

Well, I'm no debater. I'm a decent writer and an award winning orator(H.S. Academic Decathlon, but hey, being 2nd in all of Texas and 1st in my region was kinda cool), My real strong suit, however, comes from being raised by a bunch of psychologists(family, not institutions XD). So, in true theraputic form, I have a question that should enlighten all of us in a very simple way as to what is really going on politically here. Plus, I'm just curious.

Since most of us are fairly aware of who most of us are voting for, what would the candidate opposing your choice have to do for you to decide to vote for him? Purely hypothetical, of course, many of us will tow party lines irregardless of changes, myself included, and for those who are undecided, throw in your opinion on both candidates.

Ultimately, I'd like this to not turn into a debate, but for those who would like to share, please do come forward and enlighten us. In an expression of pure campiness, politics has separated everyone, this much is clear in any particular presidentially-related thread in this forum alone, much less the rest of America rallying with great, terrible separation along so many views. So I'd like to see where the middle ground lies among you all, at least, so discussions can at least flow along lines of what we really want, as opposed to bashing one party against another, as politics has lured us in to doing.

Firstly, I would be more likely to vote for McCain If he adopted a more hospitable form of healthcare (treatment for PUNishing beatings included). I really, really don't like this tax credit business, and I personally would not mind the extra tax; sales, income or otherwise. And speaking of which, I'm for anyone who would raise the minimum wage to at least something where the average person can lease an apartment without imminent fear of making rent on time. There's nothing worse than going to school and working a job or two without the money or time to enjoy simple frivolities like bowling or watching a movie or two just to keep your sanity. I'm sure plenty of people could understand that.
 
my biggest issue with Obama isnt so much with him but his blind supporters....Obama says he is for one thing but his record shows the opposite.....typical politician....no better no worse other than his record on the second amendment is hideous given the fact he was trained in and taught constitutional law.........what torques me of most is his supporters that try to get me to accept that he is anything other than a career politician......want me to take what he says at the gospel truth and ignore his record.....if he really wanted to do change he would have tried to change the most currupt political machine outside of DC when he spent 8 years as apart of it but he didnt........

with McCain i dont agree with him half the time but what he says he can back up with his record.......so atleast for a politician i can believe over half of what he says even if i dont agree with it.....does he screw up sometimes? sure but he is human after all...he has also been highly against pork spending and because of it his voting record shows he is interested in changing how the government works internally....than you look at his running mate who has the highest approval ratings of any governor.....she took the republican party in her state head on cause she felt they were currupt and she won and it turns out they were......she took on big oil, negotiated more money and turned around and gave it to the residents of the state instead of putting it into state coffers........

now i step back and ask myself which ticket actually has tried to invoke change in the system? and which is just talking about it?
 
I think Obama is less likely than McCain to something stupid on a whim or in a moment of fury. After almost 8 years of a president who's the king of doing stupid things, I want a president who doesn't do stupid things.
 
I think Obama is less likely than McCain to something stupid on a whim or in a moment of fury. After almost 8 years of a president who's the king of doing stupid things, I want a president who doesn't do stupid things.

So what can McCain do to override this perceived susceptibility?
 
good point..............but i do believe all of us here will agree McCain has more than a few IQ points on GW..........so im willing to deal with that risk........
 
It's McCain's personality and it isn't going to change after 70+ years. In my opinion, a sometimes uncontrollable temper is a disqualifies from being president.

I don't know if McCain is smarter than W. Both were spoiled underachievers and I think both graduated deep in the bottom of their class in their elite, legacy schools.
 
Both were spoiled underachievers and I think both graduated deep in the bottom of their class in their elite, legacy schools.

yeah but likely for different reasons im fairly sure most of Bush's was do to lack of intellegence.......McCain strikes me more as a rebelious kid......besides after the primo education that was given to him that it appears he intentionally fumbled, reality did gave him one hell of a ***** slap across the face and i do like how he handled himself during that.....like i said i dont agree with him half the time but that still puts him way ahead of Obama in matching my beliefs.......
 
Honestly I am not so much for Obama as I am against McCain. He supported and continues to support the constitution usurping Patriot Act. He supports extending the powers of the Patriot Act, further removing our rights. He supports expanding our military so he is cleary swayed by the military industrial complex which honestly coupled with his belief that Americans should lose more rights scares the crap out of me. His idea on foreign policy suck. He picked a running mate who tried to set women's rights back 30+ years. He also supports measures that would take away womens rights.

I agree with rattler that Obama is a career politician, but I would rather have a career politician in office than someone who reminds of too many dictators. Obama also has a much better view on foreign policy in my opinion. I like the idea of universal health care but I am not sure our government can run it, but at the same time the way health care is running now in this country is not working. I too wonder if Obama can acheive the changes he talks about. I am not super thrilled about Obama but McCain/Palin just plain scare me. Her running the country when that old guys heart gives out that is truely a scary notion, unless Canadians attack mounted on moose, in which case she is the one we need. LOL.

Also as a side note I think someone who has spent 20+ years in our federal govt. qualifies as a career politician too.
 
That Obama is a career politician line is a real hoot, given that McCain was already in congress while Obama was still in school.
 
  • #10
Wow, the OP's description of their reaction to this forum really reminds me of me when I was here during the 04' election, except without the obscene amount of spelling errors. I loved the political debates, then I got burned out from politics and never really recovered from that. Less so within the past month, though.


Anyways, I have never been shy of saying that I like McCain as a man. Ever since I became politically aware I have been impressed with him and how he does things. I loved it when he called the big, extremist televangelist leaders agents of intolerance years ago. I also think more of his environmental policies than I do of any other republican. And no, I do not think that he will be like Bush. I think the efforts to portray him as such are a big error. But I do not like his approach to foreign policy or his economic policies. We need someone who can rebuild America's worldwide relations and economy, and I am not certain he is the man to do it. And then there is his VP pick. I can write a whole page on this, but lets just say that I Do Not Approve. She is the biggest minus of his ticket for me. With his age, there is far too much chance she could become president. Nuts... he would have to dump her and the foreign and economic policies to get my vote.

I am not that impressed or convinced about Obama…and if he does by some chance bring change, it will not be instantaneous, but slow and plodding because that is how they system works. I agree with rattler on his more naive supporters, also. I am not sold on his experience either but I find his platform and policies much more palatable. So I consider myself a grudging Obama voter, but I do not consider myself a big supporter.
 
  • #11
That Obama is a career politician line is a real hoot, given that McCain was already in congress while Obama was still in school.

yeah but i dont denigh he is one.......my point was the die hard Obama supporters think he is some how going to buck the way things are done and make change.....when is political career is mostly one of not making waves and going with the system....hell he voted "present" darn near 200 times in the Illinois senate.......Obama has kept his head down and not tried to ruffle feathers to much......clear signs to me of a career politician in the making....which means he certainly aint the change they are claiming he is going to be...
 
  • #12
Wow, the OP's description of their reaction to this forum really reminds me of me when I was here during the 04' election, except without the obscene amount of spelling errors.

lol we dont have half the arguements going on we had 4 years ago :D so far this election has been pretty tame as far as this forum is concerned

edit to add.....i credit my better spelling to Firefox......however Firefox went haywire on my laptop and its running Opera at the moment and i cant get its spell checker to work..........
 
  • #13
lol we dont have half the arguements going on we had 4 years ago so far this election has been pretty tame as far as this forum is concerned
And that is why I had that huge burnout... now its not so much burn out as much as it is me being incredibly jaded about the subject.

edit to add.....i credit my better spelling to Firefox......however Firefox went haywire on my laptop and its running Opera at the moment and i cant get its spell checker to work..........
Yeah... I can not imagine typing without spell check. Think of they day of the typewriter... and shoot you guys have a whole newspaper!
 
  • #14
I'll say this for Obama... he is definitely skilled at public speaking. He has a bit of charisma and knows how to speak rhetoric. Substance... that remains to be seen.

McCain has been a disappointment. I thought he would be more a maverickand an independent thinker. Unfortunately, he has been caught on Youtube, speaking out of both sides of his mouth.

My prediction: Obama over McCain: 57-42 %, with 1 % whatever.
 
  • #15
I'll say this for Obama... he is definitely skilled at public speaking. He has a bit of charisma and knows how to speak rhetoric..

for the record the same was said of Stalin, Hitler and Castro......excelling at public speaking is not nessisarily a sign of a good leader......

for those thinking that Obama isnt going to raise your taxes how is he planning on trying to pay for this?......its over $800 billion over the next 15 years if enacted on top of what we already send in foriegn aide, on top of his health care plans:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=s110-2433

as i have stated ive never asked anyone here to support McCain, all ive asked is to quit listening to Obama for a minute and just look at his actions........
 
  • #16
Of course taxes have to be raised, because W is leaving the country with a crippling deficit even before the bubble burst. It isn't just the current deficit, either, worse fiscal problems are built in going forward. The The Democratic lambs in congress went along with all of it, as long as they got piddly little tax cuts for people who weren't rich or a few federal dollars thrown at some local problem. I'm pissed off about Obama promising tax cuts.
 
  • #17
i would rather see spending cuts than taxes raised......unfortunatly the only ones preaching that never made it out of the primaries..........
 
  • #18
for the record the same was said of Stalin, Hitler and Castro......excelling at public speaking is not nessisarily a sign of a good leader
And so was Kennedy. I wouldn't compare Obama to the three dictators you mentioned, especially since this country has the checks and balances that the others do not. We can impeach the power abusers while the others cannot. They just have to be assassinated!
 
  • #19
was making a point, was not equating him to them.........

the issue being the federal government is paying less and less attention to the checks and balances and the ppl are becoming less and less likely to pull the trigger on one who doesnt do what the ppl want.......given Obama's history on the second amendment he does seem to be interested on taking out the most decisive method of uprooting those who abuse their power.....
 
  • #20
This thread has broken Godwinn's law.

/thread.
 
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