Huge poaching of vft's

[Ozzy]

While on our trip to Triangle Lake Bog yesterday, Nick told me that he read in the listserv that over 100 vft's were poached. When I got home last night, I looked it up and I found this article on the SCDNR website.

RARE VENUS FLYTRAP PLANTS STOLEN FROM HORRY COUNTY HERITAGE PRESERVE

The S.C. Department of Natural Resources Law Enforcement Division and Wildlife Diversity Section are investigating the theft of about 100 native Venus flytrap plants from Lewis Ocean Bay Heritage Preserve in Horry County.

"Last week, about 100 Venus flytrap plants were found to have been dug up or removed from the 9,300-acre Lewis Ocean Bay preserve, located north of US ######## between ####### and ######," said Jamie Dozier, a Wildlife Diversity Section biologist with the S.C. Department of Natural Resources (DNR).
The apparent "plant poaching" occurred on at least two sites within the preserve, Dozier said. Both sites are part of an ongoing research project being conducted by Dr. James O. Luken from Coastal Carolina University.
"Lewis Ocean Bay preserve is home to the largest population of naturally occurring Venus flytrap plants in the state or possibly within its natural range in the two Carolinas," Dozier explained. "Large expanses of bay habitat on the preserve support at least 15 known populations. Venus flytraps are increasingly rare and a plant species of special concern."
Naturally occurring plant populations are also found on the ##### ##### Preserve in ###### Horry County; however, plant collecting and habitat destruction pose a threat to the survival of the species, Dozier said. "The Venus flytrap is of special concern to us in the two Carolinas," he said. "Worldwide, the Venus flytrap is only native within a 100-mile radius of Wilmington, N.C."
Theft or destruction of the Venus flytrap on Heritage Trust property is a violation of DNR regulations, according to Natural Resources Enforcement Sgt. Stan Woodle in Horry County. "Any person convicted of abuse or destruction of DNR-owned land or property could be charged up to $455 for each violation. Anyone with information on this case is urged to call the DNR, Operation Game Thief and Coast Watch Hotline at 1-800-922-5431. A reward is offered for information leading to the arrest and conviction of the person or persons responsible."
Nursery or greenhouse-raised Venus flytraps are legally sold at roadside produce and garden stands and some home improvement stores. However, the origin of the plant is sometimes questionable. Before purchasing a Venus flytrap from your local vendor, Dozier encourages the consumer to verify the plants origin to ensure that it's a greenhouse-raised plant and was not illegally collected in the wild.
- Written by G. Michael Willis -

I don't have much to say about it. Right now the only thing I can say is too bad this didn't happen in NC, because SC poaching laws are way to easy. In NC the fine is $2000 and 6months in jail for each plant.

If anybody knows of any greenhouses that sell vft's in the area of Myrtle Beach or accross the state line in North Carolina please send me a pm.

 

[goldtrap2690]

this is the kinda stuff that makes me so pissed of that i can shove peat down a eprsons throat , i don't know who did it but whoever did i hope they catch him and give him what he deserves .

 

[Slizarus]

Wow...I'm setting up a display in my biology class..with vfts and reptiles....I'll have to print this article up and place it next to them with this heading "Like what you see? Enjoy them now because they may not be around for much longer."

That's terrible....100 less plants in the wild...

 

[NickHubbell]

It is very sad to see this happening in todays world. With the mass availability of venus flytraps from tissue culture, one would think that the cost of the tissue cultured plant would have killed off the poaching need that some individuals have. If these plants were taken for commercial sales, the nursery or greenhouse should know that the same plants can be had from tissue culture for less hassle than sending someone out in the field to collect them. It is also not worth the risk of jail time and the fines associated with the poaching of plants.

It seems that the only way people will learn is when the last venus flytrap is pulled from a site. Even then I doubt it will keep people from looking for just one more.

It also strikes me funny that people will go out to poach the common form of the venus flytrap when there are much more colorful variants available from tissue culture.

 

[jhaluska]

I find it rather depressing that they would poach such a relatively inexpensive and readily available plant.

Is there any efforts to return typical plants to the wild?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't have much to say about it. Right now the only thing I can say is too bad this didn't happen in NC, because SC poaching laws are way to easy. In NC the fine is $2000 and 6months in jail for each plant.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Hmm, $2k x 100 = $200k and 50 years in prison. Yep, sounds about right to me.

 

[jhaluska]

From the rate things are going, looks like wild VFTs could one day be extinct. I bet there are more plants in captivity than in the wild!

 

[WildBill]

It disgusts me that someone would do that.

I actually tried to visit that exact site last year - as my fiancee & I were in Myrtle beach. We got lost and by the time we were on track it was getting dark, and we never made it there.

While down there we also noticed many places were selling illegal baby turtles.

Myrtle beach is very built up - but the surrounding areas seem very weird, poor & decrepidt - rusting trailers, etc. I don't think we will ever go back. We actually rescued 4 wet emaciated tick infested puppies some jerk had dumped by the side of the road. We brought them back up to Connecticut - the vet who checked them over said they had cigarrette burns all over them and that they had been fed deer corn. Luckily all were placed with really good homes.

On The Way Home In The Tacoma...

As for the preserve - is this a situation where they would reseed or replant the area in the spring?

WildBill

 

[Glenn]

I sure hope they didn't list the locations on the DNR website! Did you block out the directions or did they?

I think we should start a topic with peoples ideas on how to stop this kind of activity. I mean real ideas not hanging, beating, etc. like I've seen on this site in the past.

Education by CP clubs, reporting of questionable sources of plants for sale, things like that. We, the CP community, need to take action the DNR in most states is underfunded and just doesn't really have protecting CPs as thier primary objective.

Lets put our heads together and come up with some good ideas and maybe make a difference!

 

[Ozzy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't think we will ever go back.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Bill, don't let the actions of a few ignorant and selfish people stop you from visiting a great place. I am from that area and I know most of the people from there are good people.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I sure hope they didn't list the locations on the DNR website!  Did you block out the directions or did they?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

No I blacked the locations out. That's why I didn't give the website.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think we should start a topic with peoples ideas on how to stop this kind of activity.  I mean real ideas not hanging, beating, etc. like I've seen on this site in the past.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Good idea, but I think I like the beating and hanging idea. Or better yet North and South Carolina both have plenty of fire ants, maybe the penelty should be tie the poacher to a fireant infested stump

!!!!!!!
Seriously it's a good idea, and since it's your idea you should start the topic. Let's hear your ideas first.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Education by CP clubs, reporting of questionable sources of plants for sale, things like that.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

You can educate all the people you can, and it'll stop most of the people who wants to poach one or two plants. Education will never stop the person(s) that poached the plants in this case. There was only one motive here, and it was greed. The plants that were stolen will be sold to the public. Hopefully the poachers will try to sell the plants to us cp'ers. So everybody please watch for mature vft's sold on ebay. And think back and remember if you have seen any vft's in the past week or so for sell. Don't just concertrate on sellers from the Carolina area, the area that these plants were stolen from, is a huge vacation spot for people all over the country. The road that they were stolen from is one of the main roads that tourist take in and out of the area. So the poachers could have spent a week in Myrtle Beach, scoped out the preserve, then stopped and stole them on the way out of town. Think of any greenhouses that sells cps in the southeastern NC or north eastern SC area. If you guys can think of anything and you don't want to be the one to turn them in send the info to me and I'll do. I've already contacted the detective and gave him some ideas to chechout. I'm very familiar with the people there and I had some suspicions. So if you find something and you don't want to get involved, I'll love to pass on the info.

 

[Ozzy]

Thank you very much (You know who you are). You should be thanked publicly but I don't know if you want to be. This is as close as I can get.

 

[Ozzy]

I found another artical about this.
Sun New

Flytraps filched from preserve
By Zane Wilson
The Sun News


The thief who dug up about 100 rare Venus' flytrap plants in Lewis Ocean Bay Heritage Preserve probably will have little to show for it but multiple insect bites, the scientist who studies the area's plants said.
Jim Luken, a plant ecologist who heads the Coastal Carolina University biology department and has studied the carnivorous plants for several years, said Thursday that they aren't worth much on the market but that quite a bit of damage was done to their natural habitat.
"This is not going to get you any money," Luken said. It's more likely that the perpetrator came home with scores of mosquito and tick bites than with something valuable, he said.
Luken discovered the theft about three weeks ago. It was announced Thursday by the state Department of Natural Resources, the law enforcement officers of which are investigating.
DNR Sgt. Stan Woodle said anyone convicted in the flytrap thefts could be fined up to $455 for each violation.
"Lewis Ocean Bay preserve is home to the largest population of naturally occurring Venus' flytrap plants in the state or possibly within its natural range in the two Carolinas," said Jamie Dozier, a biologist with the DNR's Heritage Trust, which oversees Lewis Ocean Bay.
"Large expanses of bay habitat on the preserve support at least 15 known populations," he said. "Venus' flytraps are increasingly rare and a plant species of special concern."
Naturally occurring populations also are found at Cartwheel Bay Heritage Preserve in northwest Horry County.
But plant collecting and habitat destruction pose a threat to the survival of the species, Dozier said. "The Venus' flytrap is of special concern to us in the two Carolinas," he said. "Worldwide, the Venus' flytrap is only native within a 100-mile radius of Wilmington, N.C."
Luken said whoever took the plants probably thinks they still sell for a good price. Until about 15 years ago, that was the case, he said.
Flytrap stealing was such a problem that the plants were almost wiped out in most of their natural habitat in North Carolina, Luken said.
So horticulturists learned to cultivate them and began growing them commercially by the thousands.
"It's just like making poinsettias," he said. The plants often sell in grocery and home-supply stores for a few dollars.
But even so, taking a large clump like the one stolen from Lewis Ocean Bay upsets the balance of nature, Luken said.
"This is the genetic basis for every Venus' flytrap on the planet," he said.
Asked whether he was upset by the loss, he said, "You get an emotional attachment to your plants. ... Very few people ever get to see them in the wild."

 

[PlantAKiss]

My first thought for a way someone can unload illegally poached plants is on eBay. Its easy to sell there and most people won't question where the plant came from. Many eBay sellers post their locations on the listing page. So I wonder if there are any flytrap sellers with a S.C. location. Unfortunately, even if you question the seller, a poacher wouldn't reveal where they came from. But it wouldn't surprise me if they are being sold on eBay. I believe this has come up before regarding sarracenia.

Those sure are some cute pups! Looks like husky parentage in there somewhere.

Suzanne

 

[Ozzy]

Remember one thing about ebay. You can always put in a different location, or even make up a fake location. If I was selling poached vft's I wouldn't list my location .

 

[pond boy]

Thats horrible! So if they catch the guy will they use the $45500 To by new vfts to replace them?

 

[peter]

I still don't understand why people do that sort of stuff...The plants are not worth that much anyways so your better off buying them in bulk from a greenhouse and reselling them...

 

[peter]

Just a quick question though...Why cant they collect the seeds of the wild venus flytrap and make tissue culture of them by the thousands and replant them in the wild?
I know that the reason commercially bought vfts can't be planted is because they don't have the right genes and will mess up the wild population.

 

[Ozzy]

Peter, you have the right train of thought, about the genes. If you take one plant and clone it (tissue culture), you'll have too many plants with the same genetic makeup, and there will be alot of inbreeding. The whole population of vft's will suffer. In the long run the plants will be weaker and will be more vulnerable to disease and overcrowding by other plants.

The reason people still poach, even though you can get vft's cheap is because vft's in the wild are free, unless you get caught. I'm sure that who ever did this has done it before. Maybe just a couple of plants. But just like any other criminal if they get away with something once they start to think they can do it again and again and not get caught. So next time they poach a few more plants than last time and make some quick money. Soon they think they are so good that they are invincible and they take all the plants they can carry. That's what I think happened in this case. But just like almost all criminals when they think they are invincible,they slip up. This time I think he slipped up.

There is a lesson here. I hope everybody remembers it. When a large number of cps are poached they are going to end up in one place, our collection. Who do you think these people sell the plants to. Us. There are two types of people that buy cp's. One is the type that don't really care about the plant and buys it as a spoof or just to actually have a legendary venus flytrap to show their friends. That plant will be dead in two months. The other type is us. The people that collect as many cp's as they can care for or get. I'd say 80% of cp buyers are the collectors. I'm sure almost every one of us has at least one plant that has been poached. I bought some vft's a couple of years ago, nice mature vft's. He even threw in a mature S.purpurea free. Since I am from NC I know some of the locals. I found out from one of the locals that he was a well known as a poacher. Should I have known better, yes. Any time somebody offers you mature plants, that should send up red flags. I just didn't think that this person would do that. Anytime we see somebody on ebay selling mature plants you have to stop and think about it, they are probably poached. I'm sure that some of us have some of these plants that were stolen from this site in SC in our collection. If you have something to sell, you take it to a market that will buy. Who is the best market for cp? Us cp collectors. I can't say that the plants were sold on ebay, but I'm sure that some us have been targeted by the poacher in one way or another, It could be on ebay or it could be a website on the cp webring. If any of you have bought mature vft's within the last six months send me a pm.

 

[Nflytrap]

IMHO, ig someone is able to take 100 plants and get away with it for this long, the site is not adequeately protected.


Perhaps if the TC culture plants were used sparingly and(unless each of the sites has different genetic makeup)spread amongst different sites, they could help alleviate the problem a tad.

 

[Nflytrap]

Quote[/b] (0zzy @ Oct. 29 2003,12:00)]There is a lesson here. I hope everybody remembers it. When a large number of cps are poached they are going to end up in one place, our collection. Who do you think these people sell the plants to. Us. There are two types of people that buy cp's. One is the type that don't really care about the plant and buys it as a spoof or just to actually have a legendary venus flytrap to show their friends. That plant will be dead in two months. The other type is us. The people that collect as many cp's as they can care for or get. I'd say 80% of cp buyers are the collectors. I'm sure almost every one of us has at least one plant that has been poached. I bought some vft's a couple of years ago, nice mature vft's. He even threw in a mature S.purpurea free. Since I am from NC I know some of the locals. I found out from one of the locals that he was a well known as a poacher. Should I have known better, yes. Any time somebody offers you mature plants, that should send up red flags. I just didn't think that this person would do that. Anytime we see somebody on ebay selling mature plants you have to stop and think about it, they are probably poached. I'm sure that some of us have some of these plants that were stolen from this site in SC in our collection. If you have something to sell, you take it to a market that will buy. Who is the best market for cp? Us cp collectors. I can't say that the plants were sold on ebay, but I'm sure that some us have been targeted by the poacher in one way or another, It could be on ebay or it could be a website on the cp webring. If any of you have bought mature vft's within the last six months send me a pm.

I think its the other way around...most VFt's are bought by kids who are intrigued by them, follow the instructions to the letter, feed them 3 corse meals a day etc. Occasionally you see cobra plants, neps, or other novelties at Home depot of Lowes, but why buy their if you are a serious collector and want a Nepenthes "Judith Hindle" or a double flowered Sarracenia leucophylla?

 

[Ozzy]

You can't put tissue cultured plants back in the wild. They are clones and they are weaker than plants that come from seed. If you flood a wild site with tissue cultured plants then you have just flooded the site with weaker plants with the same genitic makeup, and soon you're going to have weak inbreed plants. That will make the whole population weaker.

Quote[/b] ] I think its the other way around...most VFt's are bought by kids who are intrigued by them, follow the instructions to the letter, feed them 3 corse meals a day etc.

I sale cp's to the public and I know for a fact that most cp's that is bought by non cp'ers are doomed. Most plants that are sold without instuctions on how to care for it. The plants are a nolvety and they really don't care about the plant. I'm not saying that cp's shouldn't be sold to the public. Every once in a while you sell a plant to a person and that plant sparks a interest, and that person becomes a cp'er. Tissue cultured plants are made to sale to the mass public, and if they lose intrest in that plant after a couple of months than there are thousands of plants to replace it. That's not true with plants taken from the wild. Each plant from the wild is a uniqe plant, and every one that is taken and sold to someone that will lose interest in that plant, is a major lost, that genetic make up will be gone forever. The gene pool for that species has just gotten smaller.