What's new
TerraForums Venus Flytrap, Nepenthes, Drosera and more talk

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Grey tree frogletts

Okay, been a little bussy lately to post or read about CPs, but part of my bussyness was in raising 57 (now 56 dew to resent sudden loss of one) tadpoles.  As far as I can tell they are Grey Treefrogs, but I don't know which species.  Anyhow, I figured I'd have a few days from when the frount limb buds appeard to the full legs.  Not so!  Quite literally they poped out on several of my little babies overnight!  
smile_k_ani_32.gif
Thankfully no one has desided to climb out of their milk jugs yets (I cut them in half and fill to hold the tads), but now I'm in a pickle.  I have to get together a transition enviornment for them asap, but I have no idea how to.  When I was little I raised toads, but toads can't clime....  Anyone have any recomindations/websites  
smile_o_32.gif
I can't beleave how fast it happened, do they form under skin and then pop out or what?  Also, they still have their entire tails, how long before they get their lungs and such?  Thanks all.

Edit: No, I'm not keeping all 56, lol. I should mention the goal is to release all healthy frogletts into the wild when they are ready
 
Darcie,

There is only one species of grey tree frog. Cope's grey is a totally different species that looks almost identical and the only way to tell a true grey from a Cope's grey is to count chromosomes, not exactly practical for the home hobby herper.

As for your question about the legs, yes the front legs do form in a "pouch" of skin and then pop out.

Best bet for containint the blokes is a terrarium that is half water half earth and fully covered on top. If you can control the temps take a sheet of plexi and cut it to fit the top of the tank drill some small air holes and tape it in place.

Also, FWIW captive raised frogs tend to be stunted in their growth so make sure they are large enought before releasing them back into the wild
 
I just noted my topic title is funny... anyhow, yah I just saw Flip (a individual prone to bloat that lives in a drinking glass so I can carefully regulate it's eating) pop one leg out, lol.  I can now see little folds of skin on some of the polliwogs so I am guessing they will have legs in frunt soon too.  I have never heard the 4N differentiated in it's common name, I'll have to remember that since it makes it easier to comunicate. I have however heard that you can tell the two species by their calls, unfortunettly we have both at my house so I have no idea which these belong to, lol!

As to my frogs size... NOT a problem.  Last year I did a bunch of dietary experiments with Triops and discoverd one brand of veggie food that produced incredable growth and longevity
smile.gif
I used that with my tadpoles along with some boiled lettiuce to keep them from over eating the rich food and well... they are really big.  I'd say they average 1 inch long snout to vent but some are bigger.  I've seen young greys around here before and they are smaller then mine ;)  I'm actually a little shocked by the whole thing, I think I've only had them about 5 weeks and they went from less then 1cm each to over 3 inches each when you inclued the tail o_O

Thanks for your sugestions, I'll see what I can come up with.  Does anyone know about the whole get lungs and adult digestive tract thing? Flip hasn't eaten since the day before yesterday and this afternoon he poped one leg out. His mouth looks likes he is kissing the air, more so then when he was a tadpole and used the flaps to eat.  Does the presence of an adult mouth corrispond with the air breathing or not?  I though lungs, digestion and frunt legs all happened at once, but that does not seem to be the case because Piggy (a voratious individual that has always been very pail pink and much larger then everyone else) has both it's frount legs and is very frog like (but evil, it has a sharp eye ridge that makes it look demonic, lol), but Piggy has no interest in the top of the water, in fact, all it does is sit at the bottom of the tank er milk jug.  It was still eating day before yesterday, but I haven't seen it smack any others away from the food since.  Still it seems more developed, but stoped eating a shorter time ago, I don't know, it's confusing.
 
Yes the call can be used to but it isn't as accurate. The grey (I think) has a slightly faster (key word there is slightly) call. And the fact that the two species can interbreed giving hybrids just adds to the mix of complications. Like I said, chromosome count is best but it is outside the bounds of most herpers.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I have never heard the 4N differentiated in it's common name

Not sure what you are saying here but I think you are indicating you were not aware of the 4n chromosome difference between the two species? ? ?

If that is what you are saying you are a bit mistaken. There is not a 4n difference between the two species. If I remember correctly 9and it has been a big since my frog biology readings) Cope's has half as many chromosomes as the typical grey

As for lungs and digestive tracts. Usually when they get their front legs they start surface gasping because thier lungs are developing, however their gills are still functional as well so they don't always head for the surface. The digestive tract doesn't really change that much but once they get a broad mouth they tend to switch from veggies to meat so you might want to suppliment their food offerings with brine shrimp or blood worms or something like that. Don't panick if they stop eating for a period, usually they do that just before final metamorphos, consuming the stores in their tails and living off that. This enables them to adsorb their tail and not be so clumsy when they finally do hit land.
 
No, I new of the 2N and 4N species as seporet by chromosome number, but I only know them by the scientific names, all of my books call both species grey tree frogs ;) Thank you for ansering my mouth question. I had read they stop eating for a few days, but I wasn't expecting them to get frunt legs and THEN stop eating.
 
Ah I see, well technically it isn't 2n and 4n. It is that Cope's has 2n=x while Typical has 2n=2x. By saying 4n you are implying that the typical is a polyploid organism which isn't actually the case, each has paired sets of chromosomes.

And I was mistaken on one thing, it is the Cope's that has the slightly faster call
 
Well, you'll have to take up the argument with my books. Everything I have says one is a tetraploid of the other. Versicolor is the origenal, I know that much and it has the slower call.

A new question has arrison, I might have an albino or heavilly diluted individual, has anyone seen this in greys before?
 
Never heard of an albino grey but there are albino horned frogs so it is possible. What colour are they eyes? That is the give away
 
They eyes are silver on the light and copper on the dark.  I don't think I have a true albino, probubly just a super diluted individual.  Unfortunetly since albinos can have pink, blue or silver eyes depending on species it doesn't help me much.

I do have another question.  Three nights ago I returned home from my grandma's bithday to find "Piggy" my largest morph out of the water.  I now call these frogletts my stickies and am up to 4 stickies and 10 pop-n-fresh as I call the new morphs, lol.  Anyhow, I got fruitflies (D. Hydei) for my little stickies (2-3cm long each), but they are not eating
smile_h_32.gif
Do they have to totally absorb their tails to start eating because my oldest is now 99% tailess, but I haven't seen it eat yet, although I can only find 9 of the 10 flies I put in the terrarium.  And when they do start eating, how often should they be eating and how much.  I am probubly just being paranoid, but I want to make sure they are doing okay.  Thanks
smile.gif


Edit: Okay my earlier post saying versicolor was origenal is apparently wronge. I guess they desided to give the name to the tetraploid for some weird reason violating modern nomenclature rules. Ah, the joy of taxonomy.
 
  • #10
A true albino has pink/red eyes anything else is a leucistic (defined as : "an aberration of genetic origin, typically of faded or washed-out colouration; not to be confused with albinism.") From the sound of it though you probably just have a pale morph.

Froglettes can last upto a month on the stores from their tails but I would not recommend forcing them to that extreme.

If the flies are disappearing then they are probably eating them, they are nocturnal remember so they are probably doing all their eating at night while you sleep.

I am still out on the typical form being a tetraploid. According to all literature a tetraploid is still the same species as the original parent (i.e. a tetraploid D. rotundifolia is still D. rotundifolia.) So since Typical and Cope's are classified as different species that to me would mean that one is not a tetraploid of the other.
 
  • #11
Nice topic.
Grey treefrogs are Hyla versicolor, BTW. At least last time I knew. I found out they re-did the naming of some snakes and cornsnakes are no longer Elaphe(I can understand this as people have crossed them with kingsnakes, milksnakes and pinesnakes).
There are albino green treefrogs, so I don't see why a grey would not arise. Keep in mind, almost everything produces occasional albinos, but it's not best for them, as they sit out like a sore thumb and usually get killed wuickly in Nature. Leucistic(sp?) is a white form, with normal eyes. If this one is so light that is would stick out, you may want to keep it as a pet, as it may be doomed in the wild.
A half water/half land detup would be good for some of these, with small insect food available(maybe fruit flies if the froglets are small enough).

Cheers,

Joe
 
  • #12
Joe,

I was not denying the existance of an albino, I was only stating that I don't think she had an albino.

And as for albinos sticking out like sore thumbs and getting picked off easily all I have to say is that the albino chipmonk in my neighborhood is luck he is an albino or else I probably would have not seen him in my head lights and run him over LOL
 
  • #13
Sorry how that may have sounded. You are right about it not sounding like an albino. I was just pondering about them while on the subject. Big bucks for albino critters, if you can breed them. For me it gets tireing-if I want a corn snake, it's because of it's beautiful coloration. Why would you covet it if it's albino?

Joe
 
  • #14
Well I rather like my albino corn with his creamsicle orange, neon yellow and vibrant vermillion colouration
smile.gif
I'll see if I can get a pic up some day

It is the snowballs/blizzards that boggle me, they look like overgrown overcooked living spagetti

I had an albino horned frog to but that was pointless as they spend their lived burried so what is the point?!?
 
  • #15
I have a pixie frog. He stays buried in the substrate until food is running around. He is just a little one, but he is already wider than he is long. Do horned frogs tend to bite, or are they cool for the most part?

Joe
 
  • #16
Depends on the frog really. My C. ornata was quite mellow and took guppies and goldfish from my fingers when he was small. The albino C. cranwelli was pill and always went for my fingers instead of the guppies. When I moved to mice the ornata was so conditioned to hand feeding that I had to continue the habit, the cranwelli would explode from the earth and take the live mouse before I even got it half way into the cage. Luck of the draw I guess, one good and one bad
 
  • #17
Albino eyes are blueish or silverish because the structure of the eye refracts light like a crystal, just like albino birds that have green gloss or your snakes with yellow patterns from scail modification, or anoals that are bright blue and stuff, but yah, I think I just have a diluted one. Okay, so they have had 2 fruit flies vanish... a month on one tail? Mine don't even HAVE tails at this point, it only takes them like 48 hours after leaving the water to loose them.

I have been giving them fruitflies wich are about the size of the frogletts eyeballs, is that about right? I did have 10 live in with my 3 oldest, but they all died o_O I added one remaining from my vial and got an aphid coverd plant, some leaf hoppers about the size of the fruitflies and two katydids twice the size of the fruitflies. What would help stimulate their eating? Are my sizes about right? Thanks
smile.gif


P.S. I have 13 frogletts at this point, yay!
 
  • #18
Sounds like oyu are off to a good start. It is important that they are not without food at ALL times for 8 weeks. NEVER let them run out of food. This seems to be crucial when raising froglets, and they do much better and get a better start when doing this.

Flies the size of the eyeball sounds right. I would also try springtails, and maybe to find some snail eggs and hatch and feed the baby snails to them
smile.gif
 
  • #19
baby sowbugs work well. Just catch either a large female or look around carefully amongst adults.
 
  • #20
Okay, thanks
smile.gif
 AT the moment my frogs are in terrariums with white wet pater towl on the bottom, a lump of papertowle to hide in and sit on in the middle and a plant growing out of a plastic baggie, specifically lamb's quarters.  Is this a good way to go or should I try and sterilise some dirt for them?  Do I need more plants, color?  I just added a cap of fruit fly larva and goo with another cap with a hole in it on top so they have a little fruit fly fountain and the wandering fruitfly larva stages boop about the terrarium.  Is that good?  Should I have more plants, rocks dirt, sticks?  I want them to stay highgenic, but with 3 of them only eating 2 fruit flies in 4 days I get worried.

Edit:  Springtails are rare around here and most of our native snails are endangerd so I can't risk feeding them so I'll be trying for some isopods (sow bugs)... are aphids too small then and all of mine seem to have vanished, but weather it was into the frogs or not I do not know.
 
Back
Top