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  1. #1

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    I am really sickend right now. I never looked in here befor I and I wish I never had, but maybe I can help. Their are a ton of post in here about animals people have gotten from the wild. STOP IT! Wild animals are NOT pets, yes they are cool/cute but you can not steel them like this. For starters, you are probubly breaking the law. Licences are needed to collect the FEW spiecies aloud to be captured. Some of these animals have jail time and gigantic fines placed with their capture in an attempt to keep people from ketching all the wild ones. For some examples, Box turtles almost went extinct in the wild from people finding them cute and taking them from the wild. Now days their very strict rules in regards to them and you can NOT keep them from the wild. Killing them also counts. If you want a Snapping turtle however, a fishing licence is all you need. Why? Not many people care for Snappers and these guys reproduce fast.

    Okay, so you don't want to give up your critter. To bad, it's better you put it back where you found it. Try going to some high quality pet shops, get some books and fined an animal that was bred, born and raised in captivity.

    Above everything else, my #1 consern is the bad advice people keep giving. If you know little of animal care to begin with, please don't share your misconceptions with others. Here is a does of truth for you all [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/img] to help clear things up.

    1 All captive herps require suplements in their diet. Never forget this fact!
    2 Hotrocks can kill a herp, don't use them, get hot matts insted.
    3 Reptiles NEED a reptile light.
    4 Snakes MUST have a tank at least 1.5x their length to keep them from having back problems.
    5 Always provide a shaded cool end and a sunny warm end to a tank
    6 Always give a hiding place in bother the warm and cool ends of the tank.
    7. Newspaper without colored ink is a good medium for reptiles. But you must change it EVERY DAY. Other mediums like coconut bark are good, but you MUST remove soiled areas EVERY DAY
    8. Reptiles need to soak in iodine water periotically to help them shed and to remove bacteria from their skin
    9. Coconut bark should be used with amphibians, NOT DIRT
    10. Many animals need a sleeping time for the winter or summer
    11 They will bite and they are not likely to let go for a few minutes, DON'T freak just wait.
    12 Pulling a snake that has bit you off of your finger will probubly peal off your skin, wait for it to let go.
    13 Veggitarian lizards need a huge viriety of food and NO camercial food can give them what they need.
    14 REASEARCH your chosen critter BEFOR you buy it [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/img]

    I hope no one thought I was yelling, I'm just stressing some importent points and if anyone says keeping box turtles is okay after I post this, well then I'll yell LOL!
    There is no item greater in value than life, for without life value would cease to exist.
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  2. #2

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    well, there are some very dedicated herpers on this site and im sure they get alot of their animals from quality captive breeders. wild animals carry diseases and parasites, so it is better to buy from reputable dealers. however, collecting from the wild is not as against the law as you make it out to be. each state has its own laws and regulations. it depends on the laws of your state and the animal you are collecting. for example, rattlesnakes. rattlesnakes are protected just about anywhere you go. in california, you are allowed to collect 2 of any one species and thats it. if your caught with more than 2 of wild collected rattlers, you get in trouble with the law. in arizona, it depends on species. crotalus lepidus klauberi, pricei, willardi and sistrurus catenatus edwardsi are some of the protected species in arizona that are not allowed to be touched. but the diamondback (crotalus atrox) along with others is legal to collect. it just depends on your states specific laws. now, im not saying its good to collect from the wild. i encourage anyone to buy captive bred animals. i have collected from the wild myself, but no longer do i take herps from the wild. i do take the occasional scorpion or tarantula however. buy captive bred if you can and if you want to collect in the wild, please check your local laws and restrictions
    through understanding of our differences, we will find respect for one another. we are all flesh and blood. i am not affraid to speak my mind. no matter the consequences, stay true to yourself. through the humble eyes of a child, we will realize true equality.

  3. #3

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    Yes, a few of us here are devoted herpers, like myself. We all know the general "rules" of the trade. Please don't worry about us mistreating our animals, etc. In most areas, a state hunting/fishing license is all that is needed to collect one or two of the more common herps, and maybe a few rarer ones (like here in CA, a Lampropletis zonata). I dont encourage people to collect from the wild large masses of animals for the pet trade or wahtever, maybe jsut one for a pet or so. I agree with theironmonkey on this.

    A few of the members here are "newbies" to the herping craze, so this forum area is great for asking questions.

    Just my 2 centz-Zach
    Taproot, Anti-Flag, The Casualties, Alkaline Trio, Eleventeen, Deadsy, AFI...what's not to love?

  4. #4

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    oh yea, not to keep bugging youll [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img], well, i think there is a few errors in your list of information Darcie (not to say your totally wrong or anything).

    3 Reptiles NEED a reptile light. > Not all reptiles require a reptile light (i think you mean those heat lamps or UVB bulbs). Nocturnal herps like many Lampropletis sp. dont need one, etc.

    1 All reptiles need supplements> Not all herps need supplements. Snakes feeding on mice may never require a vitamin powder, etc.

    Very nice insight on the topic Darcie, thanks for all the tips -Zach
    Taproot, Anti-Flag, The Casualties, Alkaline Trio, Eleventeen, Deadsy, AFI...what's not to love?

  5. #5

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    Hi,

    I don't know for sure which posts you are specifically alluding to, but you do bring up a good point. It made me wonder to myself if it might not be an option for some few people to consider keeping their native pets outdoors instead. I'm talking about creating a suitable habitat that would attract the desired wildlife in your own yard. If successful, patience and a little encouragement (usually in the form of food hand-outs) could habituate the animals to your presence enough that you may be able to handle them occassionally.


    Obviously, this could only apply for those people residing in rural/country areas. And it can't be done for all animals. But it always amazes me when I see people bring animals inside when they would do alot better for them by setting up a nice place outside. Just a thought.

    On a related note, I tried to do a search for the National and International laws concerning the personal collection of native wild animals. I can't seem to really pin-point the *major* legal acts concerning this issue. Because of another field of interest of mine, I was under the impression there was something called the North American Wildlife Protection Act. But apparently it doesn't exist. Does anyone know of any such act or convention? I do however know about the following: CITES, The N.A. Migratory Bird Treaty, The Endangered Species Act.

    Take care!

    Chris F.

  6. #6

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    Arrow

    I'm glad to see some more experenced people here. I tended to over generalise all because so many people think they can get away with just feeding crickets or keeping the animal in the dark. I guess I was mostly thinking of the local wild ones when I went off. As for collection info goes Snakes are much more widly excepted as okay. Turtles on the other hand have several big time laws placed on them because so many where being collected and then killed in captivity. Box turtles are mild no no's. Anything endangerd (a lot of turtles are) is the big no no I was speaking of. I've seen some turtles that where illigally taken from the wild, and not given supliments or a UV light for vitem D. Oh it's so horrible *sniff. I've never seen anything so sad. NOT EVER. It was 13 years old. uh. And it's shell. His shell is barly 4cm's long. He has health problems as can be expected and at this point all the rescue agencey can do for him is make things and good as possible for him. I...I can't stand to even picture the little guy. Then their are the kids who take turtles home and let them go in their yards >[img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif[/img] Most turtles will starve befor they get used to the new terratory and die *sniff. Sigh, I understand newbe mistakes, I just wish more where open to learning about their critters first. One time I had a deal set up with some kids mom to return the animals they kept stealing from a local pond. "Sorry kid, he must have run away" Thankfully the kids started to return most, but I had to take away 5 endangerd/protected ones from them that they felt where to cool to let go [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif[/img] The good news is the little girls grew up to understand animals (they are about 5 years younger then me). Even though their older brother killed 6 iguana and gave the 7th savear deformations from neglect, the girls have taken over her care and although her spine is bent, she is now a good size, tame, fully tailed and happy [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img] I can remember sitting with those girls showing them the bump in the back, and then going over foods and how to know when she was happy. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img] It feels so good to know I helped a few people to understand animals a little better. I'm sorry I got a little huffed up, I only read three post each of which was how do I take care of the blank my kid caught. As a kid I got lots of critters for a bit too. But I always read about them befor I went hunting. Perhaps we can encurage newbees to let their current critter go and flearn more about it, then go out and buy/fined one. BTW I'm a herp freek with no herps... lol. To bad the school only alows fish. So, what are everyone's favoret critters?

    Mine are Green Iguana (from helping so many people deal with theirs)
    Monitors (OMG they are so cute, I want the rescue one at the pet shop but alas I never will)
    Dragons (come on you can't but love this group)
    Skink (sooooo cute and shiney, I know, stupid reson)
    Dessert Iguana (I was this close to getting one)
    Corn Snakes (perfict size, decorator colors)
    Geko's (So cute, not real practical but cute)
    hmmm, I love em all really. I guess in phibs I like firebellies and treetoads of all sorts. And you got to love the salamanders.

    Personnally, I have rescued/taken care of for a while:
    Green Iguana
    American Toad
    Eastern Garder
    Eastern Milk
    ...geee, list seems short but I don't inclued anyone who stayed with me less then 24 hours.
    There is no item greater in value than life, for without life value would cease to exist.
    My Grow List

  7. #7

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    Quote (Darcie @ Oct. 08 2002,2:42)
    I'm glad to see some more experenced people here. I tended to over generalise all because so many people think they can get away with just feeding crickets or keeping the animal in the dark. I guess I was mostly thinking of the local wild ones when I went off. As for collection info goes Snakes are much more widly excepted as okay. Turtles on the other hand have several big time laws placed on them because so many where being collected and then killed in captivity. Box turtles are mild no no's. Anything endangerd (a lot of turtles are) is the big no no I was speaking of. I've seen some turtles that where illigally taken from the wild, and not given supliments or a UV light for vitem D. Oh it's so horrible *sniff. I've never seen anything so sad. NOT EVER. It was 13 years old. uh. And it's shell. His shell is barly 4cm's long. He has health problems as can be expected and at this point all the rescue agencey can do for him is make things and good as possible for him. I...I can't stand to even picture the little guy. Then their are the kids who take turtles home and let them go in their yards >[img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif[/img] Most turtles will starve befor they get used to the new terratory and die *sniff. Sigh, I understand newbe mistakes, I just wish more where open to learning about their critters first. One time I had a deal set up with some kids mom to return the animals they kept stealing from a local pond. "Sorry kid, he must have run away" Thankfully the kids started to return most, but I had to take away 5 endangerd/protected ones from them that they felt where to cool to let go [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif[/img] The good news is the little girls grew up to understand animals (they are about 5 years younger then me). Even though their older brother killed 6 iguana and gave the 7th savear deformations from neglect, the girls have taken over her care and although her spine is bent, she is now a good size, tame, fully tailed and happy [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img] I can remember sitting with those girls showing them the bump in the back, and then going over foods and how to know when she was happy. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img] It feels so good to know I helped a few people to understand animals a little better. I'm sorry I got a little huffed up, I only read three post each of which was how do I take care of the blank my kid caught. As a kid I got lots of critters for a bit too. But I always read about them befor I went hunting. Perhaps we can encurage newbees to let their current critter go and flearn more about it, then go out and buy/fined one. BTW I'm a herp freek with no herps... lol. To bad the school only alows fish. So, what are everyone's favoret critters?

    Mine are Green Iguana (from helping so many people deal with theirs)
    Monitors (OMG they are so cute, I want the rescue one at the pet shop but alas I never will)
    Dragons (come on you can't but love this group)
    Skink (sooooo cute and shiney, I know, stupid reson)
    Dessert Iguana (I was this close to getting one)
    Corn Snakes (perfict size, decorator colors)
    Geko's (So cute, not real practical but cute)
    hmmm, I love em all really. I guess in phibs I like firebellies and treetoads of all sorts. And you got to love the salamanders.

    Personnally, I have rescued/taken care of for a while:
    Green Iguana
    American Toad
    Eastern Garder
    Eastern Milk
    ...geee, list seems short but I don't inclued anyone who stayed with me less then 24 hours.[/QUOTE]
    I like all those cridders. I too am a herp lover with no herps! many people collect cridders from the wild cause pet shops want so much money!I saw a 2-3 foot burmese python (sp?) for $372.00! you can't get anything cheap these days,except for carnivorous plants! I've seen cps from $3.00 to $90.00! I guess anthing can be expensive. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif[/img]
    Spectabilis73 [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img]

  8. #8
    N=R* fs fp ne fl fi fc L Pyro's Avatar
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    Quote (Darcie @ Oct. 07 2002,11:18)
    Above everything else, my #1 consern is the bad advice people keep giving. If you know little of animal care to begin with, please don't share your misconceptions with others. Here is a does of truth for you all [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/img] to help clear things up.

    1 All captive herps require suplements in their diet. Never forget this fact!
    2 Hotrocks can kill a herp, don't use them, get hot matts insted.
    3 Reptiles NEED a reptile light.
    4 Snakes MUST have a tank at least 1.5x their length to keep them from having back problems.
    5 Always provide a shaded cool end and a sunny warm end to a tank
    6 Always give a hiding place in bother the warm and cool ends of the tank.
    7. Newspaper without colored ink is a good medium for reptiles. But you must change it EVERY DAY. Other mediums like coconut bark are good, but you MUST remove soiled areas EVERY DAY
    8. Reptiles need to soak in iodine water periotically to help them shed and to remove bacteria from their skin
    9. Coconut bark should be used with amphibians, NOT DIRT
    10. Many animals need a sleeping time for the winter or summer
    11 They will bite and they are not likely to let go for a few minutes, DON'T freak just wait.
    12 Pulling a snake that has bit you off of your finger will probubly peal off your skin, wait for it to let go.
    13 Veggitarian lizards need a huge viriety of food and NO camercial food can give them what they need.
    14 REASEARCH your chosen critter BEFOR you buy it [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/img]

    I hope no one thought I was yelling, I'm just stressing some importent points and if anyone says keeping box turtles is okay after I post this, well then I'll yell LOL![/QUOTE]
    I hate to have to argue some here becaues Darcie lectures on getting good advice and not offering misconceptions but some of her advice isn't set in stone either. I have been keeping herps, in some form or other, for 20 years. These have ranged from garter to corn to bull snakes to bullfrogs and their tadpoles. From horned lizards to horned frogs to spade-foot toads. The one thing I have found with herps is that there is no set of guidelines that you can rely on.

    Specific retorts I have to Darcie's comments
    1)Not necessaraly. My Tucson Banded Gecko has never recieved suplements and is 13 years old (possibly a captive age record.)
    2)Hot mats are just as dangerous as hot rocks
    3)No they don't. I have never used a reptile light and none of my reptiles have suffered calcium deficiency, bone problems or metabolic disease.
    7)It isn't always necessary to remove soiled areas. My vivariums are dynamic and I never remove waste.
    8)An iodine wash is not necessary. I have never heard of this and never done it in all my years and I have never had an animal experience shed problems.
    9)Dirt can be used with amphibians but you have to take special care to avoid build up of urea. A couple plants can do that easily.
    11&12)If you don't want to wait upto an hour or more, stick the offending animal under running cool water.


    Keeping box turtles is okay. They make great started pets and are easily acquired in pet stores (legally.)

    My main point is that you can not believe everything anyone tells you, even if they claim to be an "expert" (and yes that means that you should not take everything I say as gospel either.) Different situations have different rules and different solutions. Figure them out by doing your own research from as many sources as you can and then work for what is best for you.
    'My love was science- specifically biology and, more specifically, when placed in a common jar, which of two organisms would devour the other.'

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