|Alright, West, if you want to defend the practice of putting them in tiny bowls, fine. But, I'm pretty against it. |
Here's a few more links then. Personally, I see the way bettas are kept in pet stores as extremely bad for the fish.
The second site states that the water should be changed between every 3rd day to once a week, and that seems to be about how often most sites say that the water must be changed in those little bowls. Remember, changing water is EXTREMELY stressful to fish. They are caught in a tiny net, put in different water, in a strange environmtent, and before they can even realize what is happening, they are caught again, and put back into the same bowl. NOT something you want to do to them to often. Please, for the sake of the fishes comfort, use live plants, a larger tank, and filtration.
In my opinion, a tank that is set up well, is one large enough, and with enough plants, that it has to be changed less than once every couple of months (I've got mine set up so they never need to be changed, but that requires few fish, and many plants, in a decent sized tank). *The water quality before the change, and the change itself, can almost be seen as torture for the fish. I mean, the whole experience must be like being abducted by aliens is for a person. When it has to be done, it has to be done, but no reason to do it often. Easier to set up a good tank, for both the people involved and the fish.[/QUOTE]
I do not defend putting them in tiny bowls and cups I think they should be put in a bowl/tank atleast 3 gal . I do not agree with the pet stores keeping them in cups .
And about the water changing I agree it dose stress the fish but filter or not it must be done . I had a fish that lived 6 years (not a betta) I had him in a 10 gal tank and did a 1 cup water change every day . This fish did great and was fat and healthy.
One other thing I will add is chlorine It will dissipate overnight but the new additive that water companies have started using will not. It depends on the water in your area .
Just because it isn't dropping dead, doesn't mean it isn't hurting the fish. Look at it... in those little bowls they can barely move... their muscles will atrophy, causing long term damage. It's like being locked in a room, unable to exersize. The fish spends its ENTIRE LIFE just sitting there.
And for anyone with little experience with fish, a filter is a must, otherwise the water conditions can go downhill extremely fast (the sites mentioning putting it into a bowl say to change the water every 3 days to a week, so if anything odd happens, the water can get bad even faster than that, meaning they very well might drop dead from no filter, unless you know what you're doing, and are VERY careful).
Just because some websites say it is okay, and the fish will live, does not mean it is a good thing.
And yes, everyone in the pet stores doing that is wrong. They keep them in smaller tanks than the fish is comfortable in, in order to be able to sell more.
Personally, I boycott any petstore doing that. If they want to find suckers, they don't need my business.
Hey Maehem here you go
Everyone there says put your filter in the trash it bugs the bettas and creates stress . * *GO FIGHT WITH THEM *[img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img]
They say for under five gallons, and again, expect you to change the water once a week, or more often. That creates more work for you, more stress on the fish, and means if you forget, you will likely have one sick or dying fish.
carnivorous23 I agree with allmost everything your saying . I just had a prob with saying its a must. I do think the fish wold do better in some cases but my friends had his fish for 3 years his fish looks great he has the fish in a 5 gal tank with no filter at all . I cant see his fish being any more happy then he has it now . A must means the fish will die with out one wich is not allways the case .
And I dont know if you know this or not but at stores like pets smart that keep fish that are on a filter system have a high rate of getting parasites and disease from the feeder fish they sell that are raised under terrible conditions .They use the same system to filter all there water and can care less about the fish they would rather save money on a filter for parasites and disease . Iv learned this at the pond forum I go to. People have lost there big money kio fish due to introducing fish from pets smart and big stores like them *..So rember just because the store has the fish on a filter system dont mean the fish will be in great health .
Far too old to grow up now.
You know... Some people are just beyond all help, I find it amazing that even after being faced with close to 20 other posts that say one thing still there are those that will try to argue against it ... and pulling up websites is not going to prove your point any. I can point you to 3 (yes, that's right 3) websites that give you detailed instructions on how to make a "Bonsai Cat" (Involves a kitten and a quart jar). I will not post these websites as what they support is not only cruel, it is blatantly evil.
As for my not knowing what I am talking about... well.. choose to believe that if you wish, I have a degree in ichtiology that would say otherwise.
I could go into a detailed description of all the reasons why filtration is a must, and the various kinds of filtration, as well as the rather stomach turing internal infections discovered post mortem that have "mysteriosly" killed fish that appeared in the peak of health, however; since you seem to be incapable of grasping the simplest of concepts. I will save everyone else the boredom of reading such a long post.
I will however change my previous statement of "when you have a clue" to this... When you have the mental capacity and personal experience to make an informed statement, I will wholeheartedly welcome your input. Until then, keep your grieviously missinformed babbling to yourself. You are doing more harm than good.
I typo, therefore I edit.
20 post all saying the same thing? *Its a real shame that some people don't know how to count nor read. He has not yet posted at http://petfish.net/cgi-bin....5819493 because he knows every one there disagrees with him.
Some people cant handle when someone has different opinions then them they have to go all off and make very rude statements just like a communist.
Lets look shall we at the 2 post. even the rude one that started this .
Maehem - West... when you have a clue what you are talking about then you can argue... until then... don't bother saying anything.
This was the first post this communist made to me yet I did not say a word to him. As you can see very rude and hate full comment .
When you have the mental capacity .... keep your grieviously missinformed babbling to yourself.
What can I say about this it speaks for its self .
Its funny how someone who cant spell grievously or misinformed can have the nerve to make statements like that to someone he don't even know .
Well that's all I have to say. I rest my case.
Maehem, I talked to the people who created Bonsai Cat. It is a joke, plain and simple. They really don't support anyone taking it seriously, and at the time it was created, did not believe anyone would. Im not sure if that has changed, I truly hope it hasn't.
Anyways, this topic seems to be something a lot of people (myself included) seem to feel very strongly about. I think it's something we'll (myself included here) need to be careful about comments about in the future, as it is starting to become a bit of an argument. I think we should at least try and tone it down a bit, as it isn't accomplishing much right now.
This topic was started by someone that I "assumed" was new to keeping bettas, and possibly new to keeping fish altogether. In my reply, I answered with what I considered to be "ideal" answers for someone keeping a new Betta. Those of us that have been involved with keeping pets for a decent length of time know that we can sometimes get away with doing things that are less than ideal. But we also understand why we can get away with doing this things. (ie. if no filtration, keep more plants to keep the water healthy) IMO, we should always offer the "ideal" advice to newbies, and not offer them a number of other possibilities that will only serve to confuse them at this stage in their learning.
The subjects of space, diet, filtration, and water conditioners have all been debated a hundred times before, and we aren't going to settle any of them here. While a good discussion involving opposing viewpoints can sometimes be informative and maybe even fun, the "I'm right, you're wrong." nature of the replies posted here are frustrating, a little hard to understand, and aren't helping anyone.
Another personal annoyance I have with some of these posts is the inordinate number of web page links offered. The person who said that you can find alot of <crappy> sites supporting any view point is right. Offering one link to a site discussing a subject in detail is acceptable, but if you really feel that 3-4 sites have to be offered to explain your position, don't you think it might be more expedient to write a paragraph or two explaining your ideas yourself? Why should someone asking a question (or even an opponent you're trying to convince) have to sift through a number of contradictory web sites to find out what he wants/needs to know?
And please, derogatory comments aimed at people with differing opinions on the net is so passer...
Let's try to remember that we are trying to inform folks, and not show them how perfect we are in our knowledge. None of us is.
Far too old to grow up now.
I know bonsai cat was a joke... any rational person would see that... unfortunately it spawned sites from people who didn't see it as a joke... yet again an unfortunate side effect of the the internet.
I typo, therefore I edit.