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Thread: How does one tell them apart?

  1. #9

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    No, it's I that thank you...knowledge is empty unless shared. Not too many out there with any jazz for taxonomy, so it's a pleasure to help.

    Here is the link you requested. I found it by typing "CPN Listserve Archive" in Google, which brought the page up as #1. Selecting this brings you here:

    http://www.carnivorousplants.org/cplist....tht=Mar

    Use the dictionary link for any unfamiliar words/terminology. There are many terms in botany, and you don't have to go to school to learn them, just go for it! As you use these terms they will become familiar and easy. You don't need a diploma to master a subject you love, just to make $$ from it, lol.

    As to what makes a species, and the genetic aspects I fear you have the wrong guy to help there. There are many considerations involving not only genetics but also geographic details of isolation and radiation (i.e. how the plants spread).
    Read Dr. Schlauer's comments on the issue of hybrids, and you will get some ideas. Dr. Schlauer is the ultimate academic taxonomist and the elected guru of CP.

    The Listserve was a wonderful educational tool back when Dr. S. was active in posting to it. It is an E newsletter delivered @ daily to your email. This was before there were boards like this. You respond via email, and the reply is sent to all listserve members. I found it cumbersome and not conducive to long conversations since the topic disappears if no one copies it and responds to it. In later years, it became dominated by ugly off topic flame wars since there was no one moderating. It was nasty. I quit going there because of some members who disgusted me with their hatefulness. AFAIK Dr. S. rarely posts anymore. I believe it is still up and running, and you can join by sending a message. Websearch it. I warn you, it was never overly friendly to newbies....dominated by the hoity toity eggheads IMO. Most people were afraid to say ANYTHING for fear of a load of poo being dumped. Not fun.

    But the days of glory were indeed glorious. I learned so much there. Probably the closest thing there is to CP School, lol.

    BIG dews? Vertical or horizontal? Verticle it would probably be D. gigantea, right Sean? The Aussie tuberous species climb and weave through the brush, so I guess they win. More commonly, D. binata would fit the bill. D. filiformis v. tracyi and D. filiformis v. filiformis are very showy.

    For rosetted dews, D. venusta, D. slackii, D. aliciae, and again any number of tuberous rosetted plants. D. adelae can get pretty big. D. regia is a monster well grown. Some D. cuneifolia are bigger than your palm. D. capensis is no bitty thing. D. schizandra can get leaves as big as your palm (at least in Queensland). They get huge if well grown.

    Big is relative. The biggest pygmy I grew was D. pulchella x D. ericksoniae.

    D. capillaris is a very variable species, depending on where they're from. Usually quarter sized on the smaller end to as big around as a Coke can. Some are even upright, like D. intermedia. Neither size or color are of much use in distinguishing Drosera species.
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  2. #10
    rattler's Avatar
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    what makes a species a species? we say it is thats what

    actually everything bove species or subspecies level is all made up by ppl. its really hard trying to put some of these things together as far as relationships to each other. and there are thousands of different view points on how to do it.

    personally, all i care about is how to make what i have grow well.....dont care what its called as long as i like the look, the only time i become concerned about it being correctly identified is when i go to pass on plant material. you think Drosera are fun, try identifying a Utric thats not in bloom, some of those guys a scarily alike without the use of a microscope when not in bloom. and than some such as aureomaculata look nothing like anything else in my collection and i can tell it apart from my other Utrics at 10 feet with no flowers.

    taxonomy is fun but i aint anal enough to take it up
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
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  3. #11

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    Did you just call me what I think you called me?

    Hmmmm, let me write this down in my book of revenge.....Rattler.....6/19....called me an bass pole. Da noive.

    Wait until I am elevated to Modhood....you think it won't happen but eeeeeyoooouuu jest wait bucko.....


    I'll get you for this
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  4. #12
    rattler's Avatar
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    LMAO, ill be waiting but just remember im your source of Phillipsburg sapphires

    im quite serious when i say i am not anal enough to do taxonomy work.............heck i let my calycifida cultivars seed all over and into each others pots what makes you think i can sit and do taxonomy work
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

  5. #13
    Always a newbie glider14's Avatar
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    yes! now i finally know what peltate means!!!!
    alex
    Everything is explainable. The seemingly unexplainable is but a result of our insufficient knowledge.- Hans Brewer

  6. #14

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    peltate: shield shaped.

    Rattler ya said you weren't anal enough, and that means I am since I am reputed to know a little about the Sundews. Both too little and too much to be happy and enjoy growing them I think. I'm into Sarracenia and Utricularia and VFT"S nowdays. I'll leave the Drosera to those who know more and less than I do, and who can appreciate them for nonacademic reasons. I took it to the limit.

    Taxonomy is largly a matter of learning the language. I remember once when I was discussing some sp. of Drosera with Dr. Schlauer I used spindle shaped in reference to a S. Af. species and he sort of hollered at me about it. I used the wrong term for the shape, and there are no real spindle shaped seeds from there (pretty sure, pretty sure...). So you need to be proper and correct, but you already can recognize a species from 10 feet away. How do you do that, when most folk couldn't even name the genus? You did it by learning the morphological clues the plant has....rotund lollons vs filiform, eliptical, acuminate. You learned from a trusted expert that this was indeed U. aueromaculata, and you internalized the info. If you were to see it in another collection, you would know it. That is just how taxonomy works, except the experts are the authors of the Protolouge. We learn from what they show us. Taxonomy isn't really all that difficult, and it can be as fun as doing a xword puzzle.

    Send me sapphires and you can call me anything you like amigo. Hee hee.

    But I am still gonna getcha.
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  7. #15
    Cardiac Nurse JB_OrchidGuy's Avatar
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    Tamlin I am going to take your word for it that you can spot a species 10 feet away, but I don't know many folks who can. I mean hell take orchids for instance since I know a little more about them, but you take a cattleya species and set it next to a cattelya primary hybred between two catt species and if they were not in flower you could absolutely not tell them apart unless they were your plants and you knew what they were to begin with. Even in flower unless you knew that was a species or not it could be hard to tell if it was a species or hybred. I have about 6 different White catts with yellow in the lips and some are named and some are NoID that I have flowered out. Now the flower sizes are different, but you still couldn;t tell one from the other and properly identify it. I tried to get one IDed on the orchid source and someone mentioned it could be this blah blah hybred. As it turned out I had that hybred he mentioned and it recently had flowered. Needless to say it wasn't a match. So I am still a little confused, but thank again for sharing. After Ihave had some sleep I will reread what has been posted so far and get some questions for you. I am truely interested in how to ID a species as being this that and the other. Just to satisfy my own curiosity.

    The reasdon I want to take the botiny clas is because I believe it wil help me when I start my orchid nursery. I also want to take some greenhouse management classes as well. Maybe a little business. Things to help reash the ultimate goal of having a Greenhouse that will support my lifestly and maybe elivate it. That way I can do what I love for my source of income and live the easy life. They say things are so much easier when your doing something you love to do that pays the bills and lets you live comfortably.
    JB
    Friend me on facebook with JB_orchidguy@yahoo.com.
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  8. #16

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    Good luck with your future business, and your BotAny classes. Keep me in mind when you have a ton of spare Cats, lol. I have one plant and it does well for me as a houseplant so of course I want more! The flowers smell like coppertone suntan lotion. I found it on the compost heap behind the college greenhouse one October and I stole it, har har. I never grew an orchid and didn't even know it was one until it flowered and blew my mind. I wouldn't even try to ID it beyond genus level!

    Also, while I have your ear, are there any good terrarium orchid subjects you can recommend? I would like to find something that isn't too difficult or fussy, and not large growing, preferabdly a species that would grow in a sphagnum mix?
    "Grow More, Share More"

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