User Tag List

Informational! Informational!:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 8 of 14

Thread: A true newbie question -- How far can things be crossed?

  1. #1
    mcantrell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Twin Falls, ID, USA
    Posts
    497
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    A true newbie question -- How far can things be crossed?

    I have a complete and total newbie question.

    I see all kinds of neato crosses between various Sundews, but, I am somewhat new to growing plants, so... I guess my question is, is there a limit as to how far you can cross one?

    I am not talking about crossing 2 crosses, I know sundew hybrids are sterile.

    What I mean is, would it be possible to cross a tuberous with a cape sundew, for example? Or a D. Filiformis with a Pygmy? Is there a limit as to how far apart two sundews can be before they stop being something you can hybridize?

  2. #2
    War. War never changes. Est's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Champaign, IL
    Posts
    3,935
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    There certainly is. As you've mentioned, one of the earliest levels of incompatibility is sterile hybrids. Other intraspecies barriers exist as well, including those which prevent the formation of viable seed.

    Still, it's worth giving these things a go as not all possible viable crosses are known (and if someone does know, I'd love to be enlightened.) If you don't want to do "random" hybridization to test for viability, it may be more useful to attempt crosses between species known to grow in geographically similar areas and there's a better chance that the two are genetically compatible.

    Morphology can be misleading and it's quite possible that two morphologically distinct plants are genetically/ancestrally similar (and thus crossable.) Best of luck!

    Note: I'm sure there'll be someone coming shortly with a more complete answer about viable Drosera hybrids.
    \(_o)/ ಠ_ಠ
    My Growlist
    NASC Website Come join in on the fun!

  3. #3
    rattler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    missing, presumed dead
    Posts
    8,554
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    other than what Est said the main issues as to why there arent more hybrids prolly has lil to do with compatibility.....more to do with having a grower paying close attention to his plants and what are blooming and getting two plants that are likely to be able to hybridize to bloom at the same time.....which is why most hybrids so far have been from common undemanding species, or species such as the petolaris and pygmy groups that have a cycle that tends to make them sync up even in cultivation.....other issues are when crossing species such as rotundifolia, filliformis, capensis, nidiformis and those is that no matter what you do your going to get seeds and you have to grow out a whole lot of seedlings to see if something looks off that might be a hybrid.....
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

  4. #4
    Hello, I must be going... Not a Number's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    7,506
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Wrap your head around this:

    http://www.carnivorousplants.org/cpn...lt291Colch.htm

    Salient points:

    Sundew hybrids between species with different chromosome numbers are usually sterile.

    In general, a sundew hybrid is either not formed at all after cross-pollinating two species with different chromosome counts, or the resultant hybrid is sterile and totally unable to produce seed. Fernando Rivadavia (another tinker) and I have found just a few exceptions to this general rule. We were surprised when the cross between D. burmannii from Australia and D. sessilifolia from Brazil proved to be fertile. (We are constantly debating about whether they should be considered separate species.) Amongst South African sundews, D. dielsiana, D. nidiformis, and D. venusta can all be crossed and produce fertile hybrids. Most Drosera hybrids involving species with the same chromosome count are perfectly fertile.

    Chromosome counts for many of the Drosera species can be found in figure 3 in this article. See the references for other sources.
    http://www.amjbot.org/cgi/content/full/90/1/123

    Cross Pollination technique
    http://www.terraforums.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=89161
    Grand Hotel... always the same. People come, people go. Nothing ever happens.

  5. #5
    N=R* fs fp ne fl fi fc L Pyro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    4,844
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    And in the same vein as NaN's post you can cross hybrids of petiolaris complex and get seed. There are some that are 3 and 4 parent crosses out there.
    'My love was science- specifically biology and, more specifically, when placed in a common jar, which of two organisms would devour the other.'

    See You Space Cowboy

    actagggcagtgatatcccattggtacatggcaaattagcctcatgat
    Hagerstown, Maryland

    --
    actagggcagtgatatcccattggtacatggcaaattagcctcatgat

  6. #6
    Tropical Fish Enthusiast jimscott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Western New York
    Posts
    18,768
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You have no idea the "can of worms" you raise... Speciation and Taxonomy is almost as hotly debated as religion! But feel free to cross them. Who knows... look what happened when a butterwort and a VFT was crossed...

  7. #7
    mcantrell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Twin Falls, ID, USA
    Posts
    497
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    So no crossing D. capensis and D. scorpioides to make the most annoying Cape Sundew (one with Gemmae!) ever? Drat!

    Interesting stuff. Back when I was obsessing about Yellow Alpine Strawberries I read something interesting about making a mutant strawberry by using some chemical to break the chromosome count down so it would hybridize "incorrectly", but I haven't read enough about that yet.

    Ah, found it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragaria__vescana

    Researchers treated tissue from a Fragaria vesca plant with colchicine to create a mutant plant with four sets of chromosomes. This mutant was then crossed with a Fragaria x ananassa plant, and vigorous fertile offspring were obtained. The offspring were found to be decaploid, (having ten sets of chromosomes).

  8. #8
    CPlantaholic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Corn Field, Iowa
    Posts
    970
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by mcantrell View Post
    So no crossing D. capensis and D. scorpioides to make the most annoying Cape Sundew (one with Gemmae!) ever? Drat!
    Actually, I'm pretty sure you could do that combination using genetic engineering, but not by simply crossing them. It would probably be pretty difficult, though.
    you could sure make some crazy-looking stuff using genetic engineering w/ cps.
    Visit The Sundew Grow Guides: http://www.growsundews.com
    New- Drosera video tours & other sundew info, now on YouTube!

    Happy Growing!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. A total newbie question! :D
    By samtabsav in forum Venus Flytrap (Dionaea ) Care Information & Tips
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 02-17-2006, 09:09 AM
  2. Nurseries - newbie question
    By wickmo in forum Tropical Pitcher Plants  (Nepenthes)
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 05-07-2004, 01:31 PM
  3. Newbie with a cutting question
    By wezx in forum Tropical Pitcher Plants  (Nepenthes)
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 08-08-2003, 08:13 AM
  4. Easy newbie question
    By wickedthistle in forum Orchids
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 12-29-2002, 12:39 AM
  5. Newbie VFT Question
    By eecsys in forum Venus Flytrap (Dionaea ) Care Information & Tips
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 08-08-2002, 11:08 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •