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  • #21
I don't have a Lowe's near me would Wal-Mart or Menards work? I can find a Lowe's if necessary.
I'm not sure. The only place I've seen the shelving unit I'm talking about is at Lowe's, but you may be able to find something similar at WalMart or Menards.
 
  • #22
RSS - great chunk with lots of valuable info - thanks!!
Approx. 5 years or so before that (guessing), I was a member of the AGA (aquatic gardeners association). Although rare, there was something close to a consensus at the time with AH Supply light fixtures. I built a bunch of enclosures, assembled the fixtures ... lots of time & money. Over the years, while I really enjoy the quality of the light, I've had a number of premature lamp failures. :censor: I don't know if my experience is representative but I'm starting to get more serious about T-5 fixtures...

Sounds like you & Av have read from the same book. :-O

I'm unclear on your meaning here...?

Really?? A T-5 fixture w/ 2 lamps provides more light than a 4 lamp T-8 fixture?

That was something I liked about being a member of the AGA. I had recommendations from people I trusted about good lamps. While it seems plants will grow well under many lamps, I like to have a CRI above 90 or so - so the colors are accurately reflected and visually pleasant. It seems to be getting tougher & tougher to locate decent CRI lamps with a good lumen output. Are there T-5 lamps with decent CRIs? Recommendations?

Wow! Really?? Who's going to supply the aquatic world with U. graminifolia?? :0o:

I used AH Supply lights a while back but stopped due to the high bulb replacement costs. A high vote in favor of more standardized bulbs like T5/T8

When I'm planning a grow area I figure 1 T5HO light per 6" horizontal area, now if your trying to light up a deep area like a space that is 12" wide X 48" long X 24" deep, you would need 4 or maybe 6 lights instead of just 2 to reach the ground, unless you were planning on only growing lower light plants down there. The reason I think 2 T5HOs is enough light for 12" of space is from my experiences with them, no you won't end up with red/burgandy Cephs/VFTs at 8-9" but you will get some light reds and good healthy growth, move them closer and you get more color. Here is a Ceph that is approx. 1" from 2 T5H0s (1 daylight 1 actinic, I see no reason to change it :-))) The close proximity to the fixture does not seem to have any ill effect on the Ceph. I have rarely thought if I only had more light, most of the time its the opposite, this plant is getting too much light I need to move it. Keep in mind I grow more than just CPs, so lots of light is not always my friend.

4072968419_23556ef9c2_b.jpg


As for the 2 T5HO providing more light than the 4 T8s well all I can say is with my bulbs/ballasts at the same distance/same plants/same clones the T5 are burning leaves the T8 are not. The colors are darker with the T5s at the same distance, the leaves are smaller with the T5s and lighter green in color (ferns), more purple spots on the orchids with the T5s. All signs from the plants of higher light levels. With all things I could just have a better ballast/bulb combo with the T5s than with the T8s. YMMY.

T5s are supposed to be the "next" standard in lighting so there are/will be the good CRI bulbs out there for atleast 5 yrs, now when they make the next new standard ???.

U. graminifolia supplies itself silly :banana2:, and vastly downsizing might be a better way of saying it. 90% or so reduction.
 
  • #23
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produ...ubref=AA&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=0030575000000

Would this work in terms of T-5 Lighting? Just an example? Would buying off the internet work as well or should I find a Lowe's?

If I could grow a few Lowlanders that would be great! How would I go by closing the bottom rack for them? I spoke to Adnedarn and based on measurements and average pot size, he said a large grow rack like the one I was looking at would possibly hold 33 pots per rack. I would not have that many plants, so, having a lowlander area might be a good idea.

I've always liked N. bicalcarata, I had a moment with a N. bicalcarata at a friend of mines' greenhouse. I was staring at it, I poked the fangs and I actually pricked my finger. The love moment ended and I was then convinced it was trying to eat me.

I may keep it simple and not attempt the lowlander bottom part, and just do that later on when and if I get everything set up. I might not even grow Highlander Neps at all if they really do need a dramatic night time temp drop since I'd only be able to provide smaller ones year-round. But, nonetheless, I'm determined to get SOMETHING going.

I'd only need lights for the top part of the rack at first. T-5's do seem to be expensive. Two 48", according to that site, would be around $70 or so. So, I'd rather not get a ton of them right away. How many would fit on each rack? Four, right? Jeesh, that could be a lot of money on top of the grow rack... Anyone got any cheaper alternatives? It's tempting not to even try to do this because of how expensive and complicated it is.

Or is that four for the entire rack? In which case that's not too bad. Couldn't I only go for two if I'm only utilizing the top rack for awhile? And do I really need a grow rack that can hold 33 plants per rack? It might prove to be too big, and I couldn't utilize all the space, and that definitely ups the price. Are there any somewhat smaller options? It's hard to do this without a visual, haha, I may have to just find a Lowe's or see my friends' or something.

A mediumish four rack one would be nice. Nothing too gigantic, but, four racks, in case I decide to morph the fourth one into some kind of lowland habitat as suggested above, in case. Perhaps 10-15 pots per rack would do well. How many lights would I then need for the entire thing? Three? Four? Five? Two? Haha. Sorry, I'm full of questions and I'm very nervous when making decisions such as these!

Edit: I still do want to do this VERY much, I'm just really nervous. If I say I don't, I do, but, I'm just nervous! Haha. I don't want anything to go wrong.
 
  • #24
If you are planning on moving into 2 racks at some point just start out with 2 lights and if you find out that is not enough, you can always use those 2 in the other rack when you design it or just add 2 more lights. Just when you pick these 2 lights make sure you could add 1-2 more lights if you needed too. My plan was always to add another 1-2 lights when I got some more money but I just don't need the extra light so why spend the money?

Yes you can use the aquatic fixtures, but the hydroponics ones are generally less pricey. The bulbs are no were near as pricey either, they don't need to travel through water so they can be of much less quality and your plants could care less. Water really destroys light the further it travels through it, so they make these over priced bulbs to correct for it. The hydroponics places have the normal "plant/daylight" bulbs.

I do have a few of the Current USA T5HO fixtures, they have worked great, I went to another fixtures I found that was a single strip with its own reflector. That way I can place each light were I want it for the best coverage.

Questions are good! Not asking them when have you end up with something that just doesn't work right.

Growing a N. bicalcarata indoor would be a challange, those things get big. I'm bonsai'd things before, but never tried to bonsai a Nep :)
 
  • #25
Another thing to remember is you can use aquariums to keep these guys in. Craigslist does have used ones that can be cheap, if you look long enough. A standard 4 ft. tank would be 55 gallons (48" X 12" X 18") or 75 gallons (48" X 18" X 18"). If you're lucky you'll find a whole 55 gallon setup for under $150 (tank, lights, glass top, double stand, and probably some fishy stuff). Prices do vary, so if there's a fish club near you you can troll there.

Check Minnesota Fish Keepers Forum, as they do have WI members. If you're close to the Twin Cities I can tell you at least one store that sells used tanks at a cheap price, only problem is she's in the Champlin/Anoka area, so it's a bit of a drive from WI.
 
  • #26
If you are planning on moving into 2 racks at some point just start out with 2 lights and if you find out that is not enough, you can always use those 2 in the other rack when you design it or just add 2 more lights. Just when you pick these 2 lights make sure you could add 1-2 more lights if you needed too. My plan was always to add another 1-2 lights when I got some more money but I just don't need the extra light so why spend the money?

Yes you can use the aquatic fixtures, but the hydroponics ones are generally less pricey. The bulbs are no were near as pricey either, they don't need to travel through water so they can be of much less quality and your plants could care less. Water really destroys light the further it travels through it, so they make these over priced bulbs to correct for it. The hydroponics places have the normal "plant/daylight" bulbs.

I do have a few of the Current USA T5HO fixtures, they have worked great, I went to another fixtures I found that was a single strip with its own reflector. That way I can place each light were I want it for the best coverage.

Questions are good! Not asking them when have you end up with something that just doesn't work right.

Growing a N. bicalcarata indoor would be a challange, those things get big. I'm bonsai'd things before, but never tried to bonsai a Nep :)

Haha, yeah, I was kidding about the bicalcarata, but, not about the story that went along with it!

So, those $35 bulbs are overpriced, you're saying, and I could get them much cheaper? That's a relief. I'd start with two lights and add a third eventually and maybe a fourth. Would they all fit on the top rack or would I put them on all the racks?

I know I can use an aquarium but that would require more than just a stand, right? And I'd be mostly limited to lowlanders in an aquarium, but, I may get one for this purpose some day, I think a medium sized rack with good light, decent humidity [in the basement] and acceptable temps would be fine for now, with 2-3 T5 lights to start out with.

What are some better T5 lights, then? Effective yet cheaper plant ones?

Thank you!
 
  • #27
Haha, yeah, I was kidding about the bicalcarata, but, not about the story that went along with it!

So, those $35 bulbs are overpriced, you're saying, and I could get them much cheaper? That's a relief. I'd start with two lights and add a third eventually and maybe a fourth. Would they all fit on the top rack or would I put them on all the racks?

I know I can use an aquarium but that would require more than just a stand, right? And I'd be mostly limited to lowlanders in an aquarium, but, I may get one for this purpose some day, I think a medium sized rack with good light, decent humidity [in the basement] and acceptable temps would be fine for now, with 2-3 T5 lights to start out with.

What are some better T5 lights, then? Effective yet cheaper plant ones?

Thank you!

Well the $35 is not overpriced, just overpriced for what we would be using them for. They do there job we just don't need "that" kinda of bulb. We need a much less specialized one, ie cheaper :-D.

I've seem people actually put lights on the sides of there grow racks, I have not tried this myself but I might someday, if I never needed more light. Right now I have more light than I need. You could really put them anywhere they would physically fit, I've seem some really odd vivariums.

I have a reptile tank (an cheaper version of an aquarium, they won't hold water to the top without breaking) with some plexi-glass for the top with some lights just sitting on the top. It has no stand and the plants don't seem to mind, the wife however......You can adjust things in an aquarium much better than in a growrack, if you want more or less humidity/heat you just need more/less venting/fans/water/whatnot. Again check out the Exo-terra's before you make a choice, you owe it to yourself :banana2:. They are pricey but nice, you will be looking at this thing ALOT.

I've only used a few fixtures so I'm no expert, I've had good and bad results with all my fixtures. I've yet to have a problem with any of the Current USA ones, but I've read some negatives. The ones I'm using now are Sun Blaze T5 strip lights. I've received a few that were damaged in shipping, but once I got good ones they have worked great.
 
  • #28
I might stick with a rack because these terrariums, although more controlled, seem to be a bit more expensive and can hold less plants.
 
  • #29
Sorry to double post, but, it has been a few days and I have a few updates on my situation.

As of now, the humidity situation is unresolved, though, it may not be that big of a deal. From what I've yielded, many Drosera are fine with only medium levels of humidity [35-55%], and others can be hardened off rather well [not all, but, many]. Nepenthes are less forgiving, but, there are varieties [that are easier] that can be hardened off and do fine as well. Nepenthes ventricosa and Nepenthes truncata are my choices for this reason. I had a ventricosa, a young plant, growing in a windowsill. It didn't pitcher for awhile but eventually it did. It had the nice temp drop during the winter, but, in the summer it had no temp drop and it did fine. The truncata form I am looking at will be a highlander, but, truncata can be treated as an intermediate as I've heard, which means it will probably be fine without a large temp drop.

Ideally, I CAN make my basement a bit colder at night, not freezing, but, I will be able to, at least for awhile. My situation, obviously, a spacey rack and good lighting, would be best with Drosera and other plants that aren't so humidity sensitive, which there are many CPs [although most are in rather humid environments, many of them can be easily hardened off and do absolutely fine and grow well]. I will continue doing research in order to figure this out, any other ideas would be great in the meantime though.

What are your opinions on my two Nepenthes picks?

I have discovered a huge sun-window on the brightest facing portion of my house, with the same properties as my "magic windowsill" that housed my Cephalotus for nearly two years completely fine. The only problem is, yet again, the evil temperature and humidity. If my mom wasn't so afraid of mold, this would be easy.

Perhaps the basement isn't the best pick. The heater is also down there. Maybe a closet would be better? The temperature of the closet, since unheated, naturally varies on, yes, the warmth of my house, but, also the outside temperature. It's warmer during the day [relatively speaking] and warmer in my house, and at night both would be cooler. It would not be freezing, but, it would be cooler.

I think I'm going to spend tomorrow compiling a list of pros and cons of many locations in my house, and then choose the best one. I think a closet would have less of a chance to develop mold as well, and if I bought a rather advanced [albeit expensive] humidifier, set at 75% or so, it wouldn't be too high so that mold would thrive but the plants would. I could not do this in the basement, since mold is a problem down there as-is, and the basement is a large open area.

My only problem with MY closet is there is a lot of crap in there, and there are shelves in the back [if only the shelves were big, I could just slide a tray under them and use them instead of having to buy a rack!] and it's not a very large closet.

Well, enough rambling. I'm going to solve this, I can do it. I have enlisted the help of my Horticulture teacher at my school. Although he probably doesn't know a lot about carnivorous plants in general, he does know about grow racks, lighting and all that, and gave me some ideas to raise the humidity/temp.
 
  • #31
Unfortunately, I am not very handy. J do have many family members hat are and would do this for me. But, I realized something: I had counted my room out for the possible location in the beginning due to humidity concerns. But, I realized these concerns could be easily fixed! I had mold growing in my windows when I had a (very bad, I might add) warm mist humidifier. This was due to leaving the humidifier on and my room became extremely hot and hit 100% humidity. At a stable 65-80% the windows would not really have a chance to mold very well. The only problem with my room
is this: the temp. I am like a Nepenthes, I love it could and humid as I sleep. During the winter, I can put a fan in my window at night for a short time to chill my room a bit, and then during the day keep my windows shut so it is warm. In the fall, the Air conditioner should still be in the window since we still do have some hot days. In the summer, I can leave the AC to a comfortable daily mid-70s then drop it down to mid to low 60s at night. I usually do this anyway when I sleep. In the Spring it will be cool enough outside to just use that.

So, here's my problem. While I can maintain temp/humidity year round, it seems thy may conflict! If the AC was on during the summer, only medium humidity air would be coming in from the outside and the humidifier might need to be jacked up to maintain proper humidity. Same with the winter. I think it would probably be fine, sure, I might have to turn up the humidifier a little to counteract the air coming in, but, fresh oxygen should be good for the plants, as well as the air circulation, which would help with the mold problem.

What are your thoughts on this small temp/humidity conflict? Will it work out and isn't that big of an issue or might it be a dealbreaker?

Thank you in advance! I've appreciated all the help.
 
  • #32
Sorry for double post yet again, I just need to keep updating this.

If I were to go to Lowe's to buy these lights, what would I be looking for? Adnedarn said "cool whites", but, I kind of want more higher quality lights than just standard shop lights, I mean, I've tried using just plain fluorescent lights before for CPs... DID NOT work well at all. Having said that, after doing my research on T5's, they're incredibly bright and very expensive, so, I might just go with T8's.

Please help me with the lighting issue now! I'm kind of freaking out.
 
  • #33
Look for the T8s that are advertised as having a color temperature of 5000k to 6500k. Don't get the lights with a temperature in the 2000s (which is what most indoor lights are). They don't produce enough light that is useful for photosynthesis.

As long as you have the correct color of light, you'll be fine. There are a ton of people that successfully grow using cheap T8s.
 
  • #34
How would I know specifically if the light was a T8 though? What amount of watts do I need?

Sorry, I want everything perfect. Once I have this information, I'm going to pass it all by again with you guys for fine tuning and then I will get a few more opinions before I actually decide on doing it like this. I'm kind of a perfectionist and don't want anything to go wrong! Haha.

I haven't been here in a long time, so, correct me if I'm not supposed to hyperlink, but, would this be a good fluorescent T8? Seems to be large, good light output, decent watts, I might not get a 4 foot grow rack exactly, but, this is just a representation:

http://www.plantlightinghydroponics...ll-spectrum-fluorescent-lamp-4pac-p-1062.html

Am I correct in saying that I will need 4' fixtures as well in order to compensate these bulbs, and not just the bulbs? Would any old fixture do for T8 lights or shop lights? How many of these bulbs could fit in one fixture? 2? 3? 4?

Thank you!
 
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