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NeciFiX

Kung Fu Fighting!
I've been out of the CP business for far too long. Bear with the story, it's out of nostalgia! I have questions at the bottom for those who do not wish to read it. Thank you! :)

Yeah, if you're an older member of this forum you'll recognize me. I was like 12 years old when I joined. When I first got into CPs I loved them, I started growing them after doing a Science project on them in 7th grade. My friend Rashaud took the Venus Flytrap as his plant of choice, out of jealousy, I decided that "Hey, there must be more carnivorous plants out there to choose from, right?" so I chose the Butterwort, or Pinguicula.

I bought VFT seeds off of eBay and then started to grow these plants. I had about eighty plants at one point, all over my deck, they loved it! I had two four foot tall Sarracenias, and I have fond memories of when ants laid their eggs in my Sarracenia leucophylla 'hot pink''s pot, and then the entire colony was subsequently devoured. Yeah, good times!

I had a turning point when I was bringing my entire collection to a friend of mine, Ed, who owns a large greenhouse full of exotic plants [awesome Nepenthes are some of them!] offered to house my temperate plants for the winter. I was very thankful for his generosity, and since we lived in Wisconsin, I had little choice.

On the car ride there, I was in a horrible accident, I remember vaguely, me crying, picking up destroyed plants off the ground, which were bathing in radiator fluid. Some were smashed in the car, unable to get them out.

I lost everything. I bought a few more the next summer, not very many, but, still some, yet, they were unable to survive the winter. I brought them out in late March, they had been dormant since November, I had to. They started to show signs of recovery, but, a massive frost took them out. Shortly after, my Cephalotus 'German Giant' which I boasted about since it flourished in my windowsill with no extra humidity or anything like that for two years, with no extra accommodations [even in the winter] randomly died after flowering. I grew it from nearly seed, and it ended up with pitchers a little over an inch and a half.

I only have one Pinguicula now that I won in the auctions here in 2007.

I've been recently motivated to start again. I've learned my lesson. You can't grow anything in Wisconsin unless you got some money. Which I don't have. So, what do I do? I have some empty closet space, and space in the basement, I could utilize.

If I were to grow Drosera/smaller carnivorous plants, ones that could fit on a moderately priced/size grow-rack, what species could I grow? Would Cephalotus be possible again? [I absolutely love this plant in particular, it's the only one that stuck with me through it all, and alas, it died] Would smaller Nepenthes be possible? [I had a Nepenthes ventricosa in my windowsill, it didn't grow very big due to pot size/location, but, it had some pitchers and caught a wasp once]

Could anyone tell me some good brands of grow racks I'd need? Things I'd need to keep the humidity up? The Holiday season is coming. I have nothing to spend the large amount of money I'll be getting [Grandparents usually send a lot]. I was hoping to upgrade my computer, but, that's pointless, as it easily slams anything I throw at it that's not a computer game, and even then, I don't play anything graphically intensive [WoW, Diablo II and anything from Blizzard is about it! Haha].

That doesn't mean I'm rich though, I got a budget of around $200-$250. Plants will be my last concern, I can get them over time, a good set up is what I need now.

So, grow rack that will be able to be constantly heated properly with proper humidity, and the like is what I'm asking for, suited for carnivorous plants that are more tropical, not extremely large [N. rajah anyone?], and have similar characteristics.

I've tried to do my own research; trust me, but, it has been so long I have no idea what's good and what's bad anymore. I only have old fragments of information in my brain, I'm sure once I get back into it, it will mostly all bubble up again, but, for now, I'm rusty. I really could use some help. I need a hobby, I'm getting addicted to World of Warcraft because I have nothing to do anymore, and I really love carnivorous plants.

Thank you in advance for any help you can provide, sorry for the obnoxiously long story/post. I posted this in the "Drosera" section, since, I'll probably end up with a lot of Drosera, maybe a Cephalotus down the line if I'm lucky, a few small Nepenthes and Pings, but, probably a lot of Drosera. I can grow Venus Flytraps/Pitcher plants outside during the summer, but, I won't go nuts and buy 80 of them since they'll just die during the winter, most likely.

Anyway, thank you so much for your help. I realize I haven't been here in a long time, but, hopefully that will turn around. You guys were always the most helpful and nice people I've ran into, and looking through some of my old PMs on here has brought back some good memories.

NeciFiX
 
Wow....kind of a sad story...But whats the temperature there during winter?I can't help maybe some other member here can help.Hope you gat more plants!XD
 
It can get down to -10F to -20F with wind chills even colder in the dead of winter, making even a bog garden with native species a bit of a challenge. That's okay. I'm not too into Sarracenia purpurea var. purpurea anyway. Haha!
 
A lot of Cps grow very well under lights. Cheap shop lights, with cheap fluorescent cool white bulbs, work great for a lot of different types of plants. It need not be an expensive set up. I have young Sarracenia and Drosera currently under such lights, as well as a lot of non cps. Germinating seedlings I keep partially covered in open zip-loc bags, but most are fine as they are in trays of water so there is higher humidity immediately around the plants. Just keep an eye on your watering which can be more freqent if your furnace is running a lot.
 
Many people, including me, use the Lowe's 4ft wire tier shelf/rack as a grow rack. It's not exactly cheap, but it's size and durability are well worth it... Plus, 4ft shop lights fit on it perfectly.

I can hook you up if your looking for some Drosera seeds. Send me a pm.
 
Hmmm... from your story, it looks like you had a really great start! Cephalotus from seed, 1.5 inch pitchers?! I wish. If you can grow them once, you can totally do it again!

Good luck! :)
 
Send me a PM if you're interested in some Drosera seeds. And dont give up, growing in Wisconsin CAN be done, I believe there's another grower from there that does so.
 
I had some small sized N. sanguinea, N. ventricosa, and N. truncata highland growing in a west facing window sill in winter in Vermont (nights can get into the -40's outside, so the window definitely got cooler at night) and pitchering like crazy. If you have limited space, you could get a little colony of pygmy Drosera for your grow rack, because gemmae go for cheap. The really small plants get about thumb-nail-sized unless you get a D. scorpioides (which gets a little bigger). I think cape sundews will grow anywhere as well so you could start a colony of those, though they do get larger at about fist-sized. PM me if you need some plants because I'm sure I can scare up something for you (assuming it isn't arctic weather up there yet?) but it might be small/seed/starter plants.
 
Many people, including me, use the Lowe's 4ft wire tier shelf/rack as a grow rack. It's not exactly cheap, but it's size and durability are well worth it... Plus, 4ft shop lights fit on it perfectly.

I can hook you up if your looking for some Drosera seeds. Send me a pm.

Thank you for all your support!

Interesting, does Lowe's have a specific link to what you're talking about? I would prefer something that can stand up and be like a shelf or something that can be enclosed, I don't know if this is at all possible. I'd like a few Neps, probably lowland, highland would be fine too, I'm not really decided yet!

Also, any suggestions on lights? I had some grow lights, but, they were insanely weak.
 
  • #10
The four at the top of this link are the style I have, specifically the chrome one.
I know some people have purchased shower curtains and rigged them up so they enclose the whole unit, which would be useful if your keeping it in your room or something like that. I keep mine in my room; the lights used to wake me up every morning, but I got used to them after the first couple of weeks.

As for lighting, just go to Lowe's or WalMart and look for a 4' T12 shop light fixture, it should be around $10. For bulbs, look for T12 daylights and/or cool whites.

Good luck!
 
  • #11
How would I go about mounting the lights and would growing Cephalotus, Nepenthes and Drosera be possible? Maybe Heliamphora down the line, too. How could I keep temps consistent year round with a moderate nighttime drops for Neps if I choose to grow them? Summer may be challenging. Would the basement be the best spot since it is naturally humid, cooler in the summer (still wouldn't be enough, though for neps?) warmer in the winter and there is adequate space for a grow rack?

Edit: we have a humidifier in my basement with a humidistat (45 percent right now). So, this issue is solved, as I can set it to 65% and walk away. However, temps may still be a problem. Would 4 bulbs be enough to make my 'colony' flourish? (lighting)

Thank you!
 
  • #12
Cephalotus is really a trooper. I'd recommend starting with cephs and other Australian CPs, especially pygmy sundews. I don't have a ton of experience with pygmies, but I have a shelf with 2 t8 shoplight fixtures containing 2 bulbs each, and the ceph is getting some coloration and the pygmy sundew gemmae I sowed 2 weeks ago are sending up their first leaves... those aussie species will grow anywhere. The South Africa/madagascar drosera (like madagascariensis, capensis, and some others) tend to be pretty tolerant of low humidity as well. A lot of the times the shoplights come with chains and S-clips which will hook them right on to the shelf.
I imagine most drosera would be fine with 50-65% humidity under good shoplights. If you want to go the solid highland nep route, though (species like aristo, inermis, densiflora, diatas, singalana, tentaculata, etc.) you definitely want somewhere cool. Yeah, the basement sounds like the best bet. 65% humidity should be alright for most all neps, only the pickiest will fuss about it. Heck, a lot of highlanders will grow for you on a sill or just plain under lights next to capensis. Though I have no experience growing helis, other growers' experience and information of where helis grow lead me to think that they won't be so lenient about temps and humidity. Good luck getting the addiction rolling again!
 
  • #13
How would I go about mounting the lights and would growing Cephalotus, Nepenthes and Drosera be possible? Maybe Heliamphora down the line, too. How could I keep temps consistent year round with a moderate nighttime drops for Neps if I choose to grow them? Summer may be challenging. Would the basement be the best spot since it is naturally humid, cooler in the summer (still wouldn't be enough, though for neps?) warmer in the winter and there is adequate space for a grow rack?

Edit: we have a humidifier in my basement with a humidistat (45 percent right now). So, this issue is solved, as I can set it to 65% and walk away. However, temps may still be a problem. Would 4 bulbs be enough to make my 'colony' flourish? (lighting)

Thank you!
The lights come with chains. I coil them around the wire shelving until I reach the height I want them to be from the plants.

Check my grow list. Everything that isn't temperate is being grown on my grow rack together. I keep my Cephs, Helis, dews, and some Utrics in a ten gallon terrarium on one of the shelves; it keeps the humidity no less than 65%. If you have a humidifier you could get away without a terrarium; I mainly use one because my room is generally pretty dry. Everything else that I didn't list is being grown out in the open under normal humidity (which can be anywhere from 30% to 55%).

Temperature shouldn't be an issue for you at all in Wisconsin. What kind of readings do you get in your basement? Something like 70's during the day, 50's-60's at night? All of my plants have been happy with my lowland summers (80* days, high 70* nights) and intermediate - highland winters (high 70* days, mid to low 60* nights) for almost 3 years now. As long as you don't have extreme low or high temperatures, you'll be perfectly fine. All plants can adapt.
*You won't have much, if any, control over temps without spending a good amount of cash.

Edit- Sorry, missed the light question... Yes, 2 fixtures (4 bulbs) will be optimal for each shelf. If you'd like to spend some more money for better lights, look into t8's and t5's.
 
  • #14
Sounds good! I can easily adjust the basements temp to tweak it, if necessary, for a highlandish environment if I want to grow a few Neps. Not pure highland so it'll be hard to grow everything else but highland to a good degree. The only highland plant I really wanna take a stab at is N. aristiolochioides (sp?). I'm fine with more intermediates though. If I can get a good rack, lights, and stable acceptable humidity at a reasonable price I should be alright. From what I've seen and read, this is true. The basement is cooler in the summer, it'd be a bit on the warm side, though. But, I don't think there would be much of a nighttime temp drop. Would blowing a large fan on high suffice? Or would I have to put a bucket of ice in front of it? That would probably work decently. I'd suggest an air conditioner myself, but, I gotta work with mom here too! She said no to the basement but I convinced her guests spending the night down there would be fascinated by them and feel safe knowing even though we have rather large wolf spiders in the basement, people would feel safer with spider eating plants (I guess I lied since the only spiders ever caught by my CPs were scavengers or ones I put there myself). I warmed her up to it but I can't go too overboard. Anymore thoughts or opinions? By the way, I'm not really into Pygmy Drosera. I grew a fw once and they were really dull due to their small size. I could grow a few colonies but what else might be options? I don't need big ones, but, miniscule plants aren't really my thing. What do you think about my summer nighttime cooling idea?

Thank you for all the help! :)
 
  • #15
I've got some VFT's that I could send, no shipping money needed, to you if you want/need any. send me a pm, best time would be spring when its not Antarctica over there.
 
  • #16
Sounds good! I can easily adjust the basements temp to tweak it, if necessary, for a highlandish environment if I want to grow a few Neps. Not pure highland so it'll be hard to grow everything else but highland to a good degree. The only highland plant I really wanna take a stab at is N. aristiolochioides (sp?). I'm fine with more intermediates though. If I can get a good rack, lights, and stable acceptable humidity at a reasonable price I should be alright. From what I've seen and read, this is true. The basement is cooler in the summer, it'd be a bit on the warm side, though. But, I don't think there would be much of a nighttime temp drop. Would blowing a large fan on high suffice? Or would I have to put a bucket of ice in front of it? That would probably work decently. I'd suggest an air conditioner myself, but, I gotta work with mom here too! She said no to the basement but I convinced her guests spending the night down there would be fascinated by them and feel safe knowing even though we have rather large wolf spiders in the basement, people would feel safer with spider eating plants (I guess I lied since the only spiders ever caught by my CPs were scavengers or ones I put there myself). I warmed her up to it but I can't go too overboard. Anymore thoughts or opinions? By the way, I'm not really into Pygmy Drosera. I grew a fw once and they were really dull due to their small size. I could grow a few colonies but what else might be options? I don't need big ones, but, miniscule plants aren't really my thing. What do you think about my summer nighttime cooling idea?

Thank you for all the help! :)

Your welcome!

The fan idea should work, but you'll have to crank up the humidifier to stop the fan from drying out the air. In terms of stability and consistency, I don't think a fan is really the way to go unless you can work it out so that you can expect the same changes in temp/humidity from it just about every night (of course, depending on the season).

Like I said, plants can adapt. I'm pretty sure Av8tor (grows lots of Helis) grows everything on his rack without any night/day temperature difference, just constantly cool temps. He does something along the lines of what I was describing with using a humidifier and fan or a/c unit in conjunction with each other. Search up a few of his threads for more detail.

As for what you can grow... The sky is the limit! Really, I can't think of anything that wouldn't be possible, aside from maybe lowland neps in highland conditions.
 
  • #17
I don't have a Lowe's near me would Wal-Mart or Menards work? I can find a Lowe's if necessary.
 
  • #18
I did alot of research when I was picking what light types to go with for my indoor setup since I was likely to end up with alot of them. That was about a year or 2 ago, so things may have changed a little, but here is what I found.

Always go with 4 foot fixtures, always. Its the standard and will be cheaper when replacing bulbs.

T5HO was the way to go back then, once I figured out the initial costs/replacement bulb costs/electric costs T5HO was the way to go for me, find a hydroponics place with a good fixture you like that has individual reflectors, or if your the DIY type build your own. I have built a few myself and am happier with the bought ones, although mine work just as well if not better than the store bought they just don't look as nice, and these things will be around for a while. From my experiences you only need 2 T5HO fixtures per 12" area, unless you are trying to light an area deeper than 12", remember you are talking about the bulb to leaf distance not the tank/growrack height. At 8-9" I am burning some orchids and getting very good color on CPs, yes I could get better color with more light but thats just not cost effective for me. Moving the plant closer to the light would do the same.

I own both a 4 bulb T8 and a 2 bulb T5HO, the T8 are hotter and burn more electricity than the T5's and provide me with less light....With everything in life, you milage will vary. All fixtures and bulbs are different. The T5's costed alot more up front but over time they will pay for themselves. I'm talking years, not months :) T12's will become harder and harder to find replacement bulbs as time goes on, they are getting replaced with T8 bulbs and T8s will be replaced with T5s. Its a good idea to read up on light bulbs :) Buying the correct bulb can make a huge difference, all those number mean things. There are a few guides out there, usually around the aquatic or orchid forums.

Think things out. Think things out. You can design you dream setup in bite sized $100-200 bits and pieces, spent $150 this year then next upgrade comes next year at $175 for X then next year your getting the Y for $80.

Growracks are nice...but go to a reptile store and check out the Exo-terra's before you decide. I replaced the top mess screen with some plexi-glass and have never looked back. Love the Exo-terra's. Other Reptile tanks turned on there sides are less expenise than fish tanks and are just as good as fish tanks but they can't hold water. Both of these do wonders for humidity.

Check out the orchid forums and poison dart frog forums for tons of ideas about vivariums, so much information there.

Use your plants to help you. If you know you can grow Ceph's, grow them, and sell them to buy/upgrade your setup. I started out with just a 12" X 24" fish tank lighted by a few compact flouscents, about 2 years ago. Well thanks to some happy plants and some repeat customers, I now have way way way to many plants and a much higher electric bill. I'm heading out of the plant business now that I have the setup that I wanted, its alot of work, time to enjoy my plants.

Every CP I'm growing is indoors under lights, I have a few typical Cephs with 1" pitchers all nice and red. Just started growing some Nep's, so far so good. I've had an H. minor for a while with no problems. The biggest problem is things with a winter domancy and how you are going to address that, since you can't provide that inside. Basically what I'm trying to get across here is that if you want to do it you can, just do some research and ask around. Someone has probably tried and can lend a hand. I have about 20 viviariums all under lights, about 10 of them have CPs in them all growing happily, some too happily....
 
  • #19
Though this probaly won't interest you, I was able to build a two shelf growrack for about $50-60 with the bottom enclosed and humidified for the lowlands and the top could easily be encolsed too. And that price was with the (cheap) lights
 
  • #20
RSS - great chunk with lots of valuable info - thanks!!
I did alot of research when I was picking what light types to go with for my indoor setup since I was likely to end up with alot of them. That was about a year or 2 ago, so things may have changed a little, but here is what I found.
Approx. 5 years or so before that (guessing), I was a member of the AGA (aquatic gardeners association). Although rare, there was something close to a consensus at the time with AH Supply light fixtures. I built a bunch of enclosures, assembled the fixtures ... lots of time & money. Over the years, while I really enjoy the quality of the light, I've had a number of premature lamp failures. :censor: I don't know if my experience is representative but I'm starting to get more serious about T-5 fixtures...

T5HO was the way to go back then, once I figured out the initial costs/replacement bulb costs/electric costs T5HO was the way to go for me,...
Sounds like you & Av have read from the same book. :-O

....From my experiences you only need 2 T5HO fixtures per 12" area unless you are trying to light an area deeper than 12"...
I'm unclear on your meaning here...?

I own both a 4 bulb T8 and a 2 bulb T5HO, the T8 are hotter and burn more electricity than the T5's and provide me with less light....With everything in life, you milage will vary.
Really?? A T-5 fixture w/ 2 lamps provides more light than a 4 lamp T-8 fixture?

Buying the correct bulb can make a huge difference, all those number mean things. There are a few guides out there, usually around the aquatic or orchid forums.
That was something I liked about being a member of the AGA. I had recommendations from people I trusted about good lamps. While it seems plants will grow well under many lamps, I like to have a CRI above 90 or so - so the colors are accurately reflected and visually pleasant. It seems to be getting tougher & tougher to locate decent CRI lamps with a good lumen output. Are there T-5 lamps with decent CRIs? Recommendations?

I'm heading out of the plant business now that I have the setup that I wanted, its a lot of work, time to enjoy my plants.
Wow! Really?? Who's going to supply the aquatic world with U. graminifolia?? :0o:
 
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