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Thread: venutsa x capensis-is it possible?

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    CPsam's Avatar
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    venutsa x capensis-is it possible?

    Hey all, i know that aliciae can be crossed with capensis successfully but was wondering if venusta could be crossed with capensis. Never seen any pics or heard of it.

    Thanks!

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    Devon's Avatar
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    I think it would be... but then again I have no clue. if that makes any sense. lol. I've thought of this before too and I think it would be an interesting hybrid.

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    Since both species share the same karyotype of 2N=40 this hybrid is entirely possible!

    FOr your interest, here are some ploidy counts for other members of the genus. Matching karyotypes are all possible candidates for hybridization. Thanks to the CP Listserve for this data, used completely without permission because stealing and sharing data is a learning experience!

    Drosera ploidy counts

    Subgen.Thelocalyx - D.burmanni (20)
    Subgen.Stelogyne - D.hamiltonii (28)
    Subgen.Regiae - D.regia (34)
    Subgen.Coelophylla - D.glanduligera (22)
    Subgen.Lasiocephala - D.banksii (12), D.petiolaris (12 and 19)
    Subgen.Drosera Sect.Prolifera - D.prolifera (30), D.adelae (28),
    D.schizandra (30)
    Sect.Arachnopus - D.indica (28)
    Sect.Ptycnostygma - D.brevifolia (20), D.cistiflora
    (40,60)
    Sect.Oosperma - D.linearis (20), D.filiformis
    var.filiformis (20), D.capillaris (20), D.intermedia (20),
    D.spatulata (20, 40, 60), D.neocaledonica (40)
    Sect.Drosera - D.anglica (40), D.rotundifolia (20),
    D.capensis (40), D.cuneifolia (32), D.venusta (40), D.admirabilis
    (40)
    Subgen.Bryastrum Sect.Bryastrum - D.pygmaea (I found several from 20-34)
    Sect.Lamprolepis - D.leucoblasta (14), D.nitidula (28),
    D.paleacea (10)
    Subgen.Phycopsis - D.binata 32
    Subgen.Ergaleium Sect.Ergaleium - D.heterophylla (30), D.peltata (40),
    D.gigantea (28), D.neesii (28), D.macrantha (30)
    Sect.Stolonifera - D.ramellosa (26)
    Sect.Erythrorhiza - D.erythrorhiza (20), D.macrophylla
    (24), D.whittakeri subsp.whittakeri (28)

    Subgen.Drosera Sect.Oosperma - _D.burkeana_ (20) (Kondo, Bull. Torr.
    Bot. Cl.96:324, 1969)
    Sect.Drosera - _D.slackii_ (40)



    ---------- Post added at 03:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:09 AM ----------

    [/COLOR]If anyone has additional polidy counts for the genus not listed here, please add them!

    ---------- Post added at 03:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:10 AM ----------

    I wonder what a Drosera peltata x Drosera neocaledonica would look like!!!
    "Grow More, Share More"

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    Hello, I must be going... Not a Number's Avatar
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    This defunct website lists D. coccicaulis as having been crossed with D. capensis. D. coccicaulis appears to be a bogus name for D. natalensis/venusta. It maybe a form of D. venusta.
    http://web.archive.org/web/200710190...ll_hybrids.htm

    Refer to Fernando Rivadavia and others papers on Drosera chromosome counts:

    Rivadavia, Fernando and Katsuhiko Kondo and Mitsuyasu Hasebe (2002) Phylogeny of the sundews, Drosera (Droseraceae) based on chloroplast rbcL and nuclear 18S ribosomal DNA sequences
    http://www.amjbot.org/cgi/content/full/90/1/123
    (specifically) http://www.amjbot.org/content/vol90/...01-05-f03.jpeg

    and

    Rivadavia, Fernando (2005) New Chromosome Numbers for Drosera L. (Droseraceae). Carniv. Pl. Newslett. 34(3):85-91
    http://www.carnivorousplants.org/cpn...34n3p85_91.pdf
    Last edited by Not a Number; 09-21-2010 at 09:25 AM.
    Grand Hotel... always the same. People come, people go. Nothing ever happens.

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    Thanks NAN, I forgot about that one!

    I support Drosera venusta as a good species now after study. I've looked at numerous examples of Drosera venusta and D. "coccicaulis" and believe I can now reliably distinguish between them and Drosera natalensis. Dr. Schlauer regards D. venusta as a synonym of D. natalensis but in D. venusta the seed is uniformy thinner and the styles more divided at their ends.

    Personally I would like to see the form coccicaulis published at least at the cultivar rank, as it is a more desirable form of D. venusta IMO, larger and more interesting overall. By eye, it is different from other D. venusta but best seen as a variation of that species. I stick to my guns in this, Drosera venusta is distinct from D. natalensis and should not be lumped with it.

    Christian Dietz relayed to me that the name coccicaulis was never published by Paul Debbert (who did publish D. venusta) and that the name was simply placed on certain D. venusta to discourage theft. Man, the things you learn!
    "Grow More, Share More"

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    CPsam's Avatar
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    Thanks all for the info, im going to try this cross next time i get the plants blooming at the same time.

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    WRC Fan adamtekium's Avatar
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    Tamlin, what about the whole diffused centromere issue the genus seems to harbor? Karyotype can be highly variable from individual to individual. Would this have an effect on the breeder's ability to cross these plants?
    Last edited by adamtekium; 09-21-2010 at 04:52 PM.

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    Aristoloingulamata Dexenthes's Avatar
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    What a truly amazing and informative thread. I was not aware that there has been a detailed method of comparing Drosera genes for hybridization. Thanks Tamlin, for stealing and sharing that.
    LOOKING FOR: N. (argentii x bicalcarata) x {[(lingulata x edwardsiana) x (naga x hamata)] x [(klossii x undulatifolia) x (aristolochioides x rajah)]} Growlist: http://www.terraforums.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=124586

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