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Thread: Drosera nidiformis

  1. #17

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    Hi dear African-Drosera growers ,

    William : maybe you was speaking about D.collinsiae as you spoke about D.dielsiana ? (this is just a question...)
    D.collinsiae looks like a "small" D.nidiformis : leaves are shorter , also the flower-stalk is shorter , 1/3 smaller......

    CP2K : you are right , D.sp.Magaliesburg was attached to the "nidiformis" group , but in my opinion, this plant is a "variation" of D.nidiformis :
    - petioles are longer
    - color is bronze-gold , while nidiformis is red (under good light conditions)
    - under bad light conditions , nidiformis is totaly green , leaves and glands , while the tip of the "magliesburg's" glands are red
    - under good light conditions the Magaliesburg's glands never become totaly red , while the nidiformis glands become of a deep red

    That's why I named my "Magaliesburg" : D.nidiformis form from Magaliesburg.
    Also , the magaliesburg form is larger than the true nidiformis.

    The flower colors of D.nidiformis and of the Magaliesburg form are the same , a deep pink

    Marcus's plant : I originaly sent this plant to him.....that plant appears in one of my Dionaea pottings...the plants overwintered two times , they died back but appeared again in spring....also , there were many other Droseras growing in these Dionaea pottings , maybe this plant is an hybrid ? I haven't yet identified it 100%.....

    Best regards

    Patrice
    Patrice - France

    Worlds too big to be discovered !


    my site : http://carnibank.be

  2. #18

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    Hi Patrice,

    I am not sure I understand your question....but here are my thoughts, and some thoughts of others regarding these taxa.

    I have come to believe that trying to discuss any individual member of any South African Drosera species that exhibits the potential for introgressive hybridization with other compatible plants to be nearly impossible.

    Regarding the question of synonymity of D. dielsiana and D. nidiformis: these were long considered the same species.
    Robert Gibson stated in a past ACPS article:

    "Drosera dielsiana is a fairly stable species that occurs within a complex of closely allied species: D. burkeana, D. natalensis, D. nidiformis and D. venusta. It has an identical flower structure and seed to D. nidiformis, from the coastal plains near Durban (Debbert, 1991) but lacks the semi-erect, paddle shaped leaves of that taxon."


    I am sure you have noted as well the similarity of seed details between the probable hybrid D. collinsiae (D. burkeana x D. madagascariensis) and D. dielsiana.

    To further complicate things Dr. Schlauer stated:

    "Even D. dielsiana might be of hybridogenic origin (as an intermediate between D. burkeana and D. natalensis). Actually, there is a series of transitions from D.
    madagascariensis to D. aliciae, intermediate stations being D. collinsiae, D. nidiformis, D. burkeana, D. dielsiana, D.
    venusta, and D. natalensis. This series is not linear and the
    mentioned "taxa" do not even represent the whole range of variability that can be observed." Dr. Jan Schlauer (Pers. Com.2002)

    My opinion and speculation is they are all recent hybrids that formed from progenitors of a much more diffuse range that became concentrated in South Africa as the continent migrated to the North, where they then formed complex hybrids, some transitional populations of which became stable enough within a specific range to achieve speciation through the mechanisms of sexual recombination, and competition. Possibly the trend towards apomictic reproduction in the S.A. species (as evidenced by the tendency of flowers to remain closed) is a demonstration of the consolidation of this trend.



    "Grow More, Share More"

  3. #19

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    Hi Marcus,

    Your plants looks like the one i have as Drosera intermedia 'roraima'. Here are four links to photos of this plant :

    Drosera intermedia 'roraima' seedling

    Drosera intermedia 'roraima' plant

    Drosera intermedia 'roraima' leaf

    Drosera intermedia 'roraima' flower

    By the way, I think Drosera intermedia 'roraima' is an invalid name.

    Christian

  4. #20

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    Christian,

    yes, I agree - it seems to match! Thanks.

    Very nice pictures, by the way!

    Best,
    Marcus

  5. #21

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    Hi Christian,

    Yor are right, but although the name D. intermedia 'roraima' is not a legitimately published species, you could make it legitimate by registering this name as a cultivar.

    I have registered several names, and the process requires no more than an adequate description of what makes this species unique, or appealing to you - along with a photo - sent via email to Dr. Jan Schlauer or Dr. Barry Meyers-Rice for publication in the ICPN.

    Thank you for the photos of this plant! Please feel free to post photos from your collection any time you like, especially the less common Brazillian and South African species.
    "Grow More, Share More"

  6. #22

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    Hi,

    When it comes to the D. intermedia "roraima" isn't it to overdo things to talk about valid names or cultivars, when it simply could be that it is a D. intermedia that originates from Mount Roraima?

    Or is it something with this plant that differs when compared to other D. intermedia forms?

    Regards,

    Christer

  7. #23

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    I suppose it depends if you feel the plant is different. I think that genetic "heritage" is a very important concern. The positive side of registering the name is that it will provide a visual reference for the plant. If you plan on distributing the material, then this makes sense. You ask if the "roraima" material different than other intermedia: it was different enough that it has this name appended to it when it came from your source, and I am sure that you will keep that name attached when you send it out. According to the ICBN rules, the only way this information may be appended in a legitimate way is through registering the name as a cultivar, with a photo. Until this is done, the plant could be any variety of D. intermedia from any locality. If the only difference in where this material originated from, I still feel this is a significant difference, and worthy of conserving. I can't say if the ICPS would find this to be so as well, but the opportunity is there for anyone who cares to take it.
    "Grow More, Share More"

  8. #24

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    Hi,

    I also feel that genetic heritage (location data) is important, there's no question about that, and don't get me wrong registering cultivars can be helpful when it comes to plants with questionable (untraceable) background and specific traits.

    The reason I reacted was the suggestion to register the D. intermedia "roraima" as a cultivar. I could be wrong though since I don't grow this particular plant, but in my eyes it looks like a normal form of this species. Is it not possible that the collector who distributed this plant only wanted to indicate from where it was collected and nothing more, that is D. intermedia, Mt Roraima. If a form is virtually indistinguishable from the type description why even bother registering it, any visual reference will not be helpful in that case.

    In the case where the location data is present, I think it would be a disservice to the hobby to create new names, at least when a plant show no specific trait (only genetic). I think we have enough name problems as it is. The thing is, I'm not sure people will be more careful labelling a plant just because it's a cultivar, at least not when it concerns drosera. If a grower doesn't feel it is important to keep the location data on a plant, then I'm not sure he/she will make the effort to include the cultivar name either. Well maybe if someone would give the plant a fancy/catchy name.

    One important thing, as I see it, is to educate people the importance of including location data when such is provided by a source. As a grower I can only include this info when I trade a plant/seed and hope that the person on the receiving end do the same.

    As I have stated above, when it comes to plants with dubious origin, like all the different sp. "Malawi" and sp. "Auyan Tepui" which is being circulated, it would be nice to find a solution to this problem, maybe with a cultivar status on some of them.

    Sorry for drifting away from the original topic.

    Regards,

    Christer

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