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Thread: South African Droserae

  1. #137

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    Stefan,

    Thanks for the post, and its very nice to see you on the forum whenever you have a moment.

    Personally, I tend to favor lumping with regards to the South Africans, but not with other populations where geographic isolation is present, mostly because I believe speciation is a process and stable variations give valuable insight in to the process. With the South Africans concentrated in Southeast Africa, I feel that the issue is too confused, and reliance on simple phenotype is optimistic at best. However, when a population becomes stable enough to demonstrate statistical uniformity species seggregation is valid, as in the case of D. admirabilis. If species seggregation was granted to D. nidiformis, known only in the Hermanus area (and likely a one off sport of D. dielsiana), surely the same should be allowed for D. admirabilis, especially in light of Robert's publication in the CPN! I have seen photos of both floral colors you mention, but I thought it was due to different lighting! I am curious to how my plants will turn out. They are from 2 different sources so it will be very exciting to see this! Thanks for sharing the insight.

    I am not surprised the D. admirabilis you have seen lacks the floral color of the holotype, and this is another instance demonstrating that no ultimate reliance may be placed on "type forms" in herbarium specimens. Phenotypic plasticity is a hall mark of South African Drosera where the term species is a verb and not a noun. It's a pity Mr. Debbert could not locate the plants again. Do you happen to have any collection data regarding the different forms you mention?

    Please give my regard to Paul Debbert when you communicate with him, and express my admiration for his continued efforts in South Africa. I have long wished to communicate with him regarding the South African Drosera species. Despite the rejection of his attempt to publish D. admirabilis as a species, I will continue to refer to D. admirabilis as a distinct species while keeping an open mind: which is really, the best course regarding these plants in general.
    "Grow More, Share More"

  2. #138

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    Hi all,

    just one more note on D. cuneifolia/D. admirabilis:
    The (bad) pic shows D. cuneifolia from Silvermine, SAF compared with my not very small hand. If anybody out there has ever seen/had/cultivated a D. admirabilis of comparable size please let me know I would be very interested to obtain a cutting!


    Regards

    Stefan

  3. #139

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    G'day Stefan and all,

    It has been 8 pages since I have been here and I appologise for this. Some would say that the time was better spent as I was discovering!!!!! Sorry Tamlin you'll have to wait [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img]

    I've got a lot of slides back and a lot more photos to go through and get online but........

    I was lucky to have both D. coccicaulis (Stefan) and D. coccicaulis (Fred Howell) in flower last week and as I susspected the flowers are different in size and colour! The plants from stefan are only one season old and had appeared different to my clone from early on. At the time of flowering Stefans clone has an almost flat rosette while the other clone is semi errect like venusta (Which I still don't have hint hint)

    D. glabripes and D. madagascariensis are now out of dormancy. D. slackii, burkeana and all the others are flowering soon too. I also notice that from some seed grown D. slackii I have two very distinct clones. One has very long petioles (well not too long) compared with the usual suspect.

    There is so much more going on but you'll have to read the good stuff in the Australaisian CP journal. For those who aren't members, I will send pics and info to this site after. Sorry.

    Greg

  4. #140

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    Good to see you back Greg. Very interested to hear/read about your discovery/ies. Hopefully will catch up with you again soon.

    Sean.

  5. #141

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    Ok Greg I am waiting.....you sure are a tantalizing guy, LOL! Hmmmm, if you are willing to accept Robert's diagnosis of my plants I can help you out with the D. venusta. Seed was sent to me as the "coccicaulis" variety but Robert says it looks more like the D. venusta he is familiar with. Let me know if you are interested. I confess I can not sense the differences between the various web posted photos of either, and generally regard both as local varient's of D. natalensis. Both are erect, but with a different coloration: one golden green (which I associate with the D. coccicaulis var.), and the other olive green. Both seem to have various degrees of truncate to spathulate lamina. I doubt that a completely flat form could be interpeted as other than typical D. natalensis, or am I missing something? I have a hard enough time seeing any special status to the more erect forms.

    I hope you post those photos soon, the suspense is killing me!
    "Grow More, Share More"

  6. #142

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    G'day Sean,

    How are the plants? The D. curviscarpa(I'm not near the plants sorry but you know the one) leaves you gave me have yielded three plants and I'm very happy with them and the method used.

    I'm not real keen on root cuttings of African Drosera apart from those with dormancy periods (and the weedy ones) so leaf cuttings are a good option. I've done many using old leaves in distilled water but this is very slow. New leaves are much better and the good thing with these is that you can cut the lamina from the plant leaving the petiole behind avoiding damage to the parent. With the removed lamina you are almost assured a plant. Making sure it is free of prey it can be floated on distilled water in a sterile sealled jar or in damp shagnum at high humidity. If temperatures are stable 20-25 deg C is good the plantlets will grow in only a week or three depending on the species and condition of the leaf.

    Does anyone use this method or similar or better?[img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif[/img] What do you all think?[img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif[/img]?

    Thanks
    Greg

  7. #143

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    Sorry Tamlin, I just read your reply. Stefan's plants are definately different to my natalensis clone.

    While Robert was at my house we went over several of my Sp PV this and SP. SA that and decided that D. aliciae is extremely variable and I've since added the thought that there are stacks of hybrids out there. Not 100% on this yet but some hybrids are fertile and self and breed true! Does this mean that a lot of the species we grow are not what we believe they are even though they seem to match perfectly the descriptions we have.

    Many hybrids are created without us knowing! Have a look at a collection of African Drosera that is 10 or more years old. One that has not been had flowers removed and seed collected and "blow ins" removed. There are some very interesting unknowns growing amongst the obvious species.
    I don't know about the rest of the world but here in Australia we have things called insects which frequent Drosera collections and attempt to destroy our collections by cross pollinating our plants. Seed from a plant is then past around and those seedlings which are close to the parent (female) are kept and obvious hybrids are discarded as weeds or repotted in the questionmark section of the collection. Before you know it there are lots of 'variants'

    I'll give you an example. I've only ever received one batch of D. nidiformis seed several years ago. I now have three distinct D. nidiformis 'clones' These may or may not be hybrids.

    Now I'm interested in collecting seed from everyone of all African Drosera species. Any of them! aliciae, nidiformis etc....
    I want to compare all species from all collections under controlled conditions. Now that I have a new 18sq m glass house just for such plants I can do this experiment properly and publish results for all to benefit....... I hope.

    If you can help with this please let me know.

    Thanks
    Greg

  8. #144

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    G'Day Greg,

    The plants are growing beautifully. The D. curviscapa? (I'm tending to think this may be a coccicaulis/venusta unfortunately) is flowering at the moment as is my coccicaulis (the flowers are very similar but seem to have slight differences. Flower colour is the same but the styles seem a slightly different shape- I must get a better look at them).

    The D. collinsiae clump you gave me has been split up and the plants are growing beautifully, as are the D. admirabilis plants. I thought I'd lost the D. natalensis grown from the seed collected by Robert Gibson but I just noticed a new plant emerging from the roots.

    Got some nice seedlings well on their way at the moment. There are a couple of varieties of D. cuneifolia as well as D. admirabilis 'Ceres', trinervia, cistiflora 'Pink', collinsiae, collinsiae 'Fairyland', D. madagascariensis 'Botswana' and D. X snyderi.

    I've never had much of a go at propogating Drosera from leaf cuttings but I plan on doing so shortly. I reckon I'll go for the pure water method so that I can maintain a constant high humidity and keep the insects away. I'll try this and see how I go. I'll probably try a few in straight sphagnum as well.

    I didn't realise you could remove the leaf without the petiole and still have good success. Last time I tried to rip a couple of leaves off my D. pauciflora I nearly ripped the plant in two. I'll get the scissors into action on my next attempt.

    I imagine that your 'discoveries' were related to your WA trip, or am I wrong. Either way I am very keen on finding out what you've come across. Which society journal will you be publishing your finds in? Another good reason to get my act together and resubscribe.

    Regards,

    Sean.

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