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Thread: Ultra rare drosera photos

  1. #9

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    Tamlin andUtricman, very nice pics! There is nothing like seeing a well grown sundew in all its glory. Keep up the fine work and keep the free advice coming [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img]
    Nothing needs so reforming as other people's habits.
    -Mark Twain

  2. #10

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    Utricman,

    Thank you very much for your opinion. Seed came from Silverhill seed, collected in South Africa. As I have had no prior experience with this species I really can't say if it is or it isn't. Any chance of a top view of this plant so I can see the lamina more clearly? From the side it appears to be the form sold by Best CP, and I have noted the difference between this and my plants!

    D. "esterhuyseniae" is a bogus species, so to some extent, I suppose it is what anyone claims it to be. Mine is not thriving, but it certainly is not either D. burmannii or D. sessilifolia. I have felt that it may have some involvement with D. cuneifolia. possibly crossed with D. aliciae.

    Doing a web search to reach a "consensus" opinion of what others are growing, I find this page showing 2 types of this being grown by Japanese growers. The lowermost photos are identical to my plants.

    http://www-cp.stech.co.jp/cp/dro/D-esterhuysenae_e.html

    and here is one indeterminate between the two above:

    http://homepage2.nifty.com/k_osada/D_esterhuysnae.htm

    Once the plant matures a little, I will ask Robert Gibson for his opinion as he has seen this "species" in habitat in South Africa.

    I find it hard to accept the synonymity with D. aliciae (as per Dr. Schlauer), but I have not had the chance to observe the flowers which may be more diagnostic. The seed appears very similar to D. natalensis/aliciae. Do you have any photos of the flowers from your plant?

    Thanks again for taking the time to share this photo!

    If you notice any other "problems" with any of my photos, I would appreciate your input :-)



    "Grow More, Share More"

  3. #11

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    Tamlin,
    Quote
    Thank you very much for your opinion. Seed came from Silverhill seed, collected in South Africa. As I have had no prior experience with this species I really can't say if it is or it isn't. Any chance of a top view of this plant so I can see the lamina more clearly? From the side it appears to be the form sold by Best CP, and I have noted the difference between this and my plants!
    [/QUOTE]
    This makes it even more interesting. I have a slide of a top view of my plants and will try to scan it tonight. However, I must admit that none of the slides does this little plant justice!


    Quote
    D. "esterhuyseniae" is a bogus species, so to some extent, I suppose it is what anyone claims it to be. Mine is not thriving, but it certainly is not either D. burmannii or D. sessilifolia. I have felt that it may have some involvement with D. cuneifolia. possibly crossed with D. aliciae.
    [/QUOTE]

    While some authorities claim that the name D. esterhuizenae is a bogus name, I think the plant itself could very well be genetically separate from other described plants. I must state though that this is based on my own plants since it is very different. I would say my plant is intermediate between D. hilaris and a D. cuneifolia type.

    Quote
    Doing a web search to reach a "consensus" opinion of what others are growing, I find this page showing 2 types of this being grown by Japanese growers. The lowermost photos are identical to my plants.

    http://www-cp.stech.co.jp/cp/dro/D-esterhuysenae_e.html

    and here is one indeterminate between the two above:

    http://homepage2.nifty.com/k_osada/D_esterhuysnae.htm
    [/QUOTE]

    The upper most plants seem identical to the ones that I grow.

    Quote
    Once the plant matures a little, I will ask Robert Gibson for his opinion as he has seen this "species" in habitat in South Africa.

    I find it hard to accept the synonymity with D. aliciae (as per Dr. Schlauer), but I have not had the chance to observe the flowers which may be more diagnostic. The seed appears very similar to D. natalensis/aliciae. Do you have any photos of the flowers from your plant?

    Thanks again for taking the time to share this photo!

    If you notice any other "problems" with any of my photos, I would appreciate your input :-) [/QUOTE]

    A few years ago there was a CPN article (I think authored by Robert Gibson) that referenced D. esterhuizenae with a photo. This one too looked like the plant that I grow. Please post his opinion, I would be interested.

    I have not yet had the pleasure of seeing this plant in flower, but as soon as I have a flower, I will post.

    As to your comment about synonymity, I agree. If you squash this plant and mount it on a herbarium sheet and study that, could very well end up with an opinion that this plant should be lumped into the D. natalensis/aliciae family. HOWEVER, in growing this plant and seeing it alive, I have come to the conclusion that this plant should be split into its own taxon. Just my 2c.

    Utricman

  4. #12

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    Utricman,

    Its a fine 2 cents worth! Add to the list D. admirabilis which certainly seems to warrant species segregation. I suppose Jan has some deeper insight into speciation, and the requirements for seggregation. I recall that D. nidiformis and D. dielsiana were long argued to also be synonomous despite the radical difference in their appearance, so I think that it is not by eye alone that these distinctions are made. Possibly by dart board, LOL?

    Interesting comment regarding the possibility of hybridization between D. hilaris and D. cuneifolia. I have scant experience with either species, although I have just (once again) sown a reputed D. cuneifolia. My last attempt produced nothing more than D. spatulata, go figure!

    Keep me in mind if you ever find a source for D. hilaris, this is a species I long to grow and study. I will look for the article by Robert on D. esterhuyseniae, I must have it somewhere.

    I look forward to the floral photos when you can post them with eager anticipation!
    "Grow More, Share More"

  5. #13

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    Quote (Tamlin Dawnstar @ Aug. 19 2003,11:09)
    Its a fine 2 cents worth! Add to the list D. admirabilis which certainly seems to warrant species segregation. I suppose Jan has some deeper insight into speciation, and the requirements for seggregation. I recall that D. nidiformis and D. dielsiana were long argued to also be synonomous despite the radical difference in their appearance, so I think that it is not by eye alone that these distinctions are made. Possibly by dart board, LOL?[/QUOTE]
    Dart board... I like it. Oh well, maybe one day we will understand the mysteries of "correct" taxonomy...

    Anyway, as promised see the image below and let me know what you think.

    This image is copy right. Please email for permission to use this image.

  6. #14

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    That's a stunning photo, and you say your plants don't do this photo justice! Yes, I get the feeling of D. hilaris from the shape of the lamina, but the hairs on the lamina remind me of a form of D. natalensis ostensibly from Zimbabwe. It has the same ascending petioles. I do not see D. aliciae in it at all, but then again D. aliciae and D. natalensis by be just distal polar extremes of one population of compatible karyotypes. I continue to feel the concept of species is optimistic regarding the South African members of the genus. (I have counter arguments for the proponents of genetic analysis&#33[img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/img] I am willing to wager the karyotype of this species is 2n=40 with all the implications of introgression this suggests. If you are a collector, this is a frustrating fact. I have considered adding the prefix aff. (e.g. Drosera aff. natalensis) as a prefix to most of my South African species, just to relieve the aggravation.

    Still, I love them all, and I enjoy their varied beauty. Your plant is a wonderful example of the diversity of the region, and gives me yet another "species" to try to someday grow. Thanks again for sharing your photos. I look forward to seeing more photos from your fine collection.
    "Grow More, Share More"

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