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D. burmannii flower puzzle

PlantAKiss

Moderator Schmoderator Fluorescent fluorite, Engl
I originally had one D. burmannii plant.  It grew well, got quite large, produced several flower scapes, made seed and eventually died off.  I collected seed and also there were volunteers in the pot so I transplanted several of those and now have a pot bursting with about 5 burmanniis.  They are all starting to produce scapes in various stages.

The largest scape and a couple of others have matured and are setting seed.  When I went to check on the seed I noticed something.  The largest plant had a large flower scape with WHITE flowers (made sure by looking through a magnifying glass) and the spent flowers were light brown.  All the other plants that had (or have) flowers are PINK.  Clearly pink..even the spent flowers are pink.

So...my question is...is it unusual to get both white and pink flowers out of the same batch of seed from one single plant?  Is one color more typical than the other?  Unfortunately I do not recall the flower color of the original burmanii plant.  Would seed from the white flowered scape give white flowered plants and vice versa with the pink?

All the plants are definitely D. burmannii and I had no sessilifolia at the time the original plant flowered.

If anyone has any comments I'd sure appreciate it.  Thanks!

Suzanne
 
This may a comparison between "apples & oranges" but I've noticed a similar phenomenon observing Johnny Jump Up plants. If you look at the flower color on one plant, let's say one of those purple & yellow ones, you will some have darker purple than others. In other words, the same plant yields different variations of color. Now that's phenotype. There's no telling what the genotype is programmed to do. Just a thought.
 
D.burmannii don't usually have pink flowers, in fact as afar as I know it is extremely rare. On the other hand D.sessilifolia does have lilac-pink flowers. These 2 species are VERY closely related, although geographically very distant. They are interfertile and the hybrids are fertile too. You don't by any chance have D.sessilifolia around too, do you?

Take Care,
Fernando Rivadavia
 
Hi Fernando

Thanks for replying.  
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At the time my original burmannii flowered and set seed, I did not have sessilifolia in my collection.  I had only the one D. burmannii and all the seed/plantlets that I got came from the single plant.  The pot of 5 burmanniis I have now all grew from seed from the one original plant.  Now all the seedlings are maturing and producing flower scapes.  I assumed that the pink was normal because I had more pink flowers than white.  The only plant with the white flowers was the largest, most mature plant.  The others are somewhat smaller but all are producing scapes now and there were perhaps 3-5 pink flowered scapes.  The pink color is a strong pink...not like a pale lilac.

My sessilifolia are fairly recent acquisitions (didn't have when the original burmannii set scapes).  Also the sessilifolias are grown separately from the burmanniis.  I knew they were closely related and look similar but all the ones I have now labeled D. burmannii have to be that because the seed all came from the one plant.

I do have a couple of photos of the closed flowers on the scapes to show the color difference.  I can also take a photo of the pot of plants.  The flower photos aren't good quality...my camera can't take clear pictures of small objects but you can see the color difference.

I think the original D. burmannii photo is posted on Patrick's CPGallery in the Sundew Gallery...a single plant with an unfurling flower scape.

I'll try to get the pics posted and a pic of the pot of plants.

Thanks!
Suzanne
 
Great, I'll keep my eyes open for the pics, can't wait!

Fernando Rivadavia
 
OK...got the pics.  Excuse the quality but I think you can see the color difference.

whiteflower.jpg

This is the white flower scape.  Hard to tell they are white but this is the one I used a magnifying glass on a partially opened bud to check the color...definitely white.

pinkflower.jpg

This is one of the pink scapes...flowers bright pink.  Even the stem has a pink cast unlike the white scape.  I harvested some of the lower flower caps that had set seed.  All seed I collected was separated into "white flower" and "pink flower" envelopes.

dburmannii3-04RS.jpg

This is the 4" pot of 5 plants...all from the one parent plant (see below).  The top left plant is the one with the white scape.  I think the top right and lower center plants are the ones with the pink flowers.

dburmanniiRS.jpg

This is last year's one single D. burmannii parent (prior to any D. sessilifolia being around).

Hope this helps.  Any explanation?  Genetic fluke?

Suzanne
 
Cool whip! So the plants are `1.75" in diameter? And they are under a year old?
 
They are awefully pretty lil plants Suzanne.

Would these happen to be the blooming plants you spoke of in your PM to me?

Cheers,
Sean
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (PlantAKiss @ Mar. 31 2004,12:00)]I originally had one D. burmannii plant.  It grew well, got quite large, produced several flower scapes, made seed and eventually died off.  I collected seed and also there were volunteers in the pot so I transplanted several of those and now have a pot bursting with about 5 burmanniis.  They are all starting to produce scapes in various stages.

The largest scape and a couple of others have matured and are setting seed.  When I went to check on the seed I noticed something.  The largest plant had a large flower scape with WHITE flowers (made sure by looking through a magnifying glass) and the spent flowers were light brown.  All the other plants that had (or have) flowers are PINK.  Clearly pink..even the spent flowers are pink.

So...my question is...is it unusual to get both white and pink flowers out of the same batch of seed from one single plant?  Is one color more typical than the other?  Unfortunately I do not recall the flower color of the original burmanii plant.  Would seed from the white flowered scape give white flowered plants and vice versa with the pink?

All the plants are definitely D. burmannii and I had no sessilifolia at the time the original plant flowered.

If anyone has any comments I'd sure appreciate it.  Thanks!

Suzanne
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ressesive genes and basic mendelin at that, it's easy.  Your origenal plant had one dominent pink gene and one resessive colorless gene.  It self fertilised.  So 1/4 of the plants have two genes for pink.  1/2 have one pink gene and one white so they express the pink trait and 1/4 have two ressesive white genes and have white flowers.  So yah, one plant can throw two colors, more if it has complex color genes, but your description sounds like the easy yes or no type
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Edit:  The origenal mutation could have taken place at a lot of places.  You only need the flowerstalk to mutate in order for seed to hold the mutation.  

If your origenal plant had white flowers, then it's not basic medilain genetics, but a dominent color inhibitor gene.  That is to say an when the dominent form of an unrelated gene is pressent it sits on the gene for pinkness and prevents it from expressing.  When this dominent suppressive gene is replaced by two ressesive alleals the pink color is no longer prevented from forming and the pink comes through.  This however would give you more white then pink flowers.

The third option is that if you started with white flowers, and the pink was suppressed by having two ressesive alleals of another gene pressent, then having one dominent version of the suppressive gene would be enough to let the color through.  And of course, you could have a gene that sits on a gene that would have sat on the color gene if it hadn't been sat on it'self.... okay getting to complex now ;) LOL.

Short answer is, yes, it happens. And I have seen both color types up for grabs in the traiding post. You just lucked out and got a two for one deal
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  • #10
Hi Jim

Yes, that's probably about the size of them.  And yes they are well under a year old.  When they start to grow, they grow very fast!  One minute they were little seedlings and the next the pot was getting full.  
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 Really amazing.  D. burmannii is one of my favorites.  Its a very handsome, wicked little 'dew with its long tentacles and "catcher's mitts."

Sean...probably.  I'll have to check and see what else is blooming too.

Thanks Darcie.
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 Ummm..."And of course, you could have a gene that sits on a gene that would have sat on the color gene if it hadn't been sat on it'self..."   HUH??  
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  • #11
Hey Suzanne, where did you get that first burmannii? Wasn't from me was it? If it was, then it would explain the pink flowers
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  • #12
No actually my original plant came from William.
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You have pink flowered burmannii also? Did it make both white and pink flowers off the same parent plant?
 
  • #13
Interesting discussion. Suzanne, I also received some burmanni and/or sessilifolia from William, not directly, but as an unannounced bonus that sprouted in various Utrics that he sent to me. I had just assumed that the ones with pink flowers were sessilifolia and the ones with white flowers were burmanni. Since I had neither species, they could not have been a contaminate from my plants.
 
  • #14
Hmmm...that's interesting Bob. I do have some pink flowered sessilifolia that came from William (on purpose!). But I can easily tell them apart although probably seedlings would probably be more difficult.

I'll have to ask William if he's noticed pink flowers on his burmannii. I told him about my flowers and he said D. burmannii had white flowers as far as he knew.

I'll have to tell him you got some little hitchhikers in your utrics. I like gettting little bonuses like that.
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  • #15
Nope, my burmannii have white flowers. But since it came from William, and he grows sessilifolia...
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  • #16
Hmmm... So the pink-colored inflorescences have pink flowers while the green inflorescences have white flowers? Sounds like you have some albino plants versus regular colored plants.

The problem is that the leaves appear to belong to D.burmannii, and not D.sessilifolia. And as far as I know D.burmannii only very rarily has pinkish flowers (although pinkish scapes and plants are common). It would be interesting to ask the person who sent you the seeds about the origin of this plant...

Fernando Rivadavia

P.S. If you can get pics of the open flowers, I'd be really interested in seeing them...
 
  • #17
Suzanne,

I would like to chime in that those are really excellent pics you took.

Regards,

Joe
 
  • #18
Thanks Joe.  I've always loved the photo of the parent plant.  If I ever get a better camera...I'll be dangerous.  
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I feel confident that the parent plant is D. burmannii as are the pot of 5.  My sessilifolia, while similar, do not look the same especially in size.  They are currently flowering and are separated from the burmannii.

The parent plant of the 5 I received, not as seed, but as a young plant perhaps 1" in size.  It grew to about 2", flowered and produced the current plants.

Assuming the plants are burmannii as they appear to be...then wouldn't the white flowered plants be the typical form ("regular colored plants") and not an albino form?  And the pink would be the anomaly?

I will try to get a pic of an open flower but that's hard to do since I'm at work most of the day.  Plus the flower will be hard to photograph with my camera's poor focusing on small objects.  I'll try though.  Might be able to draw it better than photograph one IF I can catch a bud open.

I'd really like to know why the flowers are pink if they are typically white.  And if the seed from the pink flowers will make pink-flowered plants.  Of course I can find that out once I sow the seed and get plants.

Thanks for your thoughts everybody.  
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  • #19
Below is the plant and flowers that I got as a volunteer from William that I was calling D. sessilifolia because the flowers were pink. Sorry that the photos are a bit out of focus and the pink color is washed out.
D_sessilifolia081.jpg

D_sessilifolia_flower079.jpg

D_sessilifolia212.jpg

A different volunteer plant (below) came up in another pot that had white flowers and green tentacles, which I have been calling D. burmanni. Unfortunately, I do not have a photo of the flower, but the flowers were white and the scape was green.
D_burmanniTop758.JPG
 
  • #20
The first three pics look like D. sessilifolia to me.  The last one looks like D. burmannii.  But I'm far from being any expert.

The pink color on my burmannii is a very strong pink...not a light pink like in your photos Bob.   Nice looking plants though.  
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edit: Update...my first D. burmannii's origin goes back to Joao Roberto Gabbardo in Brazil. Joao sent D. burmannii to William Dawnstar and William sent me my plant.
 
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