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Thread: Edwardsiana

  1. #57

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    I had a feeling that would be the response. Thanks for having the balls to ask, swords.
    I remember the article and did not think they would publish it if that species had been obtained illegally.

    Cheers,

    Joe

  2. #58

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    I think what Robert is saying is that he had no active part in the seed collection, it was sent to him and he received it in good faith. I don't doubt that. All I'm saying is that the third party who sent him the seed most likely didn't have a permit to collect it. So no negative inference on Robert, he did the right things when he received the seed in clearing for import, so he didn't cause issues from US Customs. I also have no negative view on his distribution of the seedlings, as his work in growing Nepenthes from seed is well known and respected. All I wanted to do is make people aware of the less-than-clear-cut aspects of growing Nepenthes. Fortunately or unfortunately, it is illegal to collect much material in the countries of origin and plenty of material in cultivation has less than legitimate origins. We have responsibilities as growers to not only not participate in poaching or illegal collection, but not facilitate it by turning a blind eye or seeing that the ends justifies the means.
    Demystifying Nepenthes: http://www.nepenthesforeveryone.com

  3. #59
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    Sydneyneps, just out of curiosity, do you think Robert did the right thing given the circumstances? or do you think he should have just destroyed the seed given that he realized it probably wasnt legally collected?

    its an interesting argument for either way. personally, given how the seeds came to be in his posetion i would have tried to grow them. him selling the seedlings bugs me a little though im not sure at all what he is charging(if someone would PM me what they are paying to satisfy my own curiosity i would appreciate it, im not set up to grow this species and dont actually know how to get ahold of this individual anyways even if i did, just curious on a ball park figure) personally given the circumstances i would be more inclined to give seedlings to individuals in the hobby who i know and trust that they have the conditions to get these guys started. but thats just me and my 2 cents on the subject
    cervid serial killer
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  4. #60

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    No, I think he did the right thing without a doubt, destroying the seed is counterproductive and diminishes a resources which can't afford to be diminished. I have been in the same situation myself. Like Robert, I'm well know for growing Neps from seed, particularly rare highland species. Luckily for me I have two botanist friends who works with Indonesian conservation agencies who have permits to collect Nepenthes seed, so I get legal seed. However, from time to time I get unsolicited seed from someone who got it from someone else ... and I can almost guarantee that the seed wasn't legally collected. I do plant out the seed. The rule I have with that seed is that I give as many of the seedlings to botanical gardens as they can take, keep 5 - 10 for myself, and give the rest away. I will not ask money for the plants, other than the cost of postage. That way I feel I am not profiting from it or financially encouraging it.
    Demystifying Nepenthes: http://www.nepenthesforeveryone.com

  5. #61

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    SydneyNeps,
    This would be waaaaay down the road, obviously, and in an alternate universe, but say Robert did not sell the seedlings and raised them to maturity and they flowered and he produced seed from them. Would it hold as much taint to you as the original seedlings?
    I find this debate kind of interesting, btw.

    Cheers,

    Joe

  6. #62

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    If the law of diminishin returns applies, then seed from captive plants wouldn't be an issue. Given the amount of seed that can be grown from freshly harvested seed at the right time is huge, it takes a lot of pressure off wild plants. I wonder how many N. ventricosa are poached from the wild??
    Demystifying Nepenthes: http://www.nepenthesforeveryone.com

  7. #63

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    Just a thought, and regardless to the issue of legality about these plants, but what if we somehow arranged to return these seedlings to their grandparents' place of origin? Seeing as how they're such rare plants, even a dozen seedlings (maybe grown out to a better size first) could significantly boost the population.

    On discussions about growing hybrids, people have talked about how our personal collections don't have a chance of saving wild populations, but if someone offered to buy some seedlings and pay for the necessary permits they could really help. Of course, the parks service for Mt. Kinabalu would have to agree!

    I personally can't afford to pull off something like this, but I'd be willing to donate to such a cause.

    -D. Lybrand
    Check my growlist! Nothing currently available for trade...

  8. #64

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    I don't actually agree with the sentiment that our collections wouldn't be able to re-establish wild populations. It obviously depends on future habitat protection and quality, but assuming that an area was being rehabilitated and protected, there is no reason why there couldn't be enough genetic variability to repopulate.

    However, it requires conservation infrastructure, and few countries where Nepenthes are found have this. It is better that plants are kept in cultivation and propagated by seed, and freely shared around - the more growers the greater risk management and greater the genetic diversity of captive populations. In future years when maybe things have changed, then re-establishment in the wild can be done. However, at the moment with poaching and habitat destruction being rife, it is not worth it.
    Demystifying Nepenthes: http://www.nepenthesforeveryone.com

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