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Neoguinensis

If you indeed did grow them personally from a small plant or so... HATS OFF dude! good job at the wonderful skill of growing those masterpieces. :)
 
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either that..of he collects them like we collect other CPs. as in a collection (noun).
 
Errmm... I think he means he collects species from Papua guys. :)


Even if he did wild collect, which I don't think he did, he may have had permission. I collect orchids from the wild all the time and ship them out, but it's on my own property. I gave myself permission ^_^
 
Vraev:

While your argument in pro conservation is very valid and it has the support of a large number of CP growers, is nevertheless flawed.
On one hand, we have people who take plants and seeds from the wild, which we all know, is illegal, because the person doing is destroying a natural habitat of a particular species etc. Let's not; however, forget that many of those habitats are still being destroyed by another kind of human intervention (bulldozers, shovels, etc) to develop and construct on the area in question or to collect precious timber. Or like N. talangensis which may have been wiped out by the eruption of a volcano on gunung talang?. This alone may kill several dozen if not hundreds plants. who should we blame then?. Although a bit selfish, but a soon to be extinct nepenthes species in the wild may be in better hands with a collector who would hopefully knows how to culture a neoguineensis rathern than with construction companies or logging companies which only seek monetary remuneration or in the hands of God (tsunamis for globosa and volcanic eruptions for talangensis). I am not promoting,by the way, any illegal poaching, but if i have to choose, i'd choose the lesser of the two evils.

Gus
 
Basically, wild collection is called "POACHING" and I don't think there is a point of saying "WOW" or congratulating you for any of those plants, since, it was nature which grew them and you blatantly without understanding the amazing plant, pulled it out of that area. :(

Different countries have different laws about what is and is not "poaching" so perhaps before you go slamming someone you should make sure you know full well what set of laws they are operating under. I myself do not know the laws of Papua so I will not comment either way.

Do not pass judgment too quickly people, it usually does more damage than good.

And remember, the #1 rule here is BE NICE so let's not go tearing into people.


Very nice pics Ady :)
 
I guess I DID NOT entirely understand the context of "collection" in his terms. However pyro, I seriously don't care how each country defines poaching. I define poaching as Stealing something from the wild for "personal pleasure". I guess when it comes down to the point of "saving them from landmowing" for building another shopping mall....thats valid and genuinely a good reason to take plants from the wild.

However, I got to say.. "IF" due to a communication error I didn't understand and "this dude" did indeed grow those plants....then hats off man! those are amazing plants and amazing growing to grow them like that...wonderful job at replicating nature. :)

In my understanding of poaching...I do also agree that all the plants we own have originated from "poached plants". But at this stage we are just growing "cultured plants" which immediately aren't making a effect on the wild populations.

In either case, I know I am biased towards nature...and I personally feel that "destruction of a species by a volcano" is the course of nature and is "NATURAL". It is the course of evolution and the path of LIFE on earth. I rather prefer that happening than "people un-sensitively destroying beautiful areas of nature without consideration to the wonders of the natural world."
 
Sure Vraev:

Let's not have a tsunami warning system and let it kill people, destroy buildings, and plants, because we should let nature take its course!
Also, why bother with medicine, let human beings die of disease because they are natural!.
I think we should draw the line where we should let nature take its course and when it shouldn't. Humans are not perfect, but neither is nature.

Gus
 
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However pyro, I seriously don't care how each country defines poaching. I define poaching as Stealing something from the wild for "personal pleasure".

And to be perfectly honest I do not care how you define poaching. The point was that you can not hold the entire world to your value set. And sure as I am standing here you have absolutely no right to rip into someone on this board just because your value system is different than theirs. To paint a broader picture; If someone is a buddist says they are spiritual then you do not get to tell them they are not just because you are a Christian and define spirituality differently. As I said in my last post, the #1 rule here is BE NICE and tearing into someone like that is pretty far from nice. Do not justify your wrong actions, apologize and just step down.

In my understanding of poaching...I do also agree that all the plants we own have originated from "poached plants". But at this stage we are just growing "cultured plants" which immediately aren't making a effect on the wild populations.

No offence but that is a rather limited way of looking at it. You are aware that basically every species of Heliamphora was collected without permits? And that the people who made those collections are profiting off those collections by selling the material? Do you denounce them as harshly as you jumped on the originator of this thread? Your arguments here would imply you do. Or at least that you should.

Myself, I do not judge them because I understand their meme and how it came about. Neither do I judge Adynepenthes as I understand his meme. Neither do I judge you because I understand your meme as well.
 
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well...as I said .. I DID state the other situation, if he DID indeed grow them by himself and did not wild collect them.

If you indeed did grow them personally from a small plant or so... HATS OFF dude! good job at the wonderful skill of growing those masterpieces.

But, I get your point too! I can see what you are trying to say. Especially that "without more information regarding how these plants are grown, where they collected from the wild, under what circumstances, how long ago and so on." I guess I was a bit "immature in that "first leap"". But, one thing is certain though... I personally just despise poaching. Well! I guess thats a topic for another day. ENough heat raised up in this thread due to "lack of information".
 
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