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  • #21
Hello everyone, this is my first post! Thanks for all the great info. This thread is especially good and the best seed sowing guide I could find on the internet. I have very good germination from my first batch of seed!

I'm using a 1:1:1 mix, as above, and bagging them with a hole in the bag. While the seedlings are still young, I've gotten good results so far. I'm new to the Nepenthes hobby, and although I'm not formally a microbiologist, I know a thing or two about microbes.

Microbiologists know that sterilization and pasteurization are totally different things. Actual sterilization requires temps above 250F. NOBODY is sterilizing their media - this requires an autoclave or a pressure cooker or something. Pasteurization, with temps ranging from 140F to 170F (100 degrees F cooler than sterilizing!) is a maneuver which yields a microbiologically stable environment by killing most active organisms, and sparing the dormant ones. While killing multicellular organisms like nematodes and insect eggs and also colonies of active fungi and bacteria, it leaves most endospores and some favorable bacteria intact (actinomycetes actually thrives in low pasteurization temperatures). This levels the playing field in the competition for nutrients, but still allows plenty of biodiversity. This way, they all keep each other from growing unchecked across a nutrient source (the soil). Believe it or not, trichoderma, rightly mentioned above as a great soil stabilizer, is also the same green mold you see in failed pots (or possibly penicillin). The difference is that the overcooked media favors the mold so much that it gains enough nutrition to grow "vegetatively" and sporify. - potentially deadly for a seed caught in the cross-fire. We want a slow, lazy war among these microorganisms, and not a massive, single-front offensive.

The only effective way I'm aware of really pasteurizing soil correctly at home is in an analog turkey roaster set to low and monitored with a meat thermometer (I go for 145F). The media is then hydrated to field capacity, so approximately that's when no water comes out when squeezed, and only 1 - 3 drops come when squeezed "hard." The moistened media is put in a moist pillowcase along with a little water for an hour or two. I haven't tried this on Nepenthes seeds, but on rather more sensitive applications here on my mushroom farm. Its the industry standard for microbial stability.

In my opinion, the preference would be as follows:
1. pasteurized (the best by far)
2. sterilized
3. untreated
4. "boiled"

Microwaving until "the media gets hot, but not hot enough to burn you" works quite well. In my new micro thats 44 seconds on high for a single 4 - inch round pot of moist media. I've gotten great germination and nearly zero mold. In fact, I did an accidental side by side comparison with some media heated to boiling, and some to "just hot" as above. The microed pots have healthy seedlings of about 40% germination which I think is great. The three I overcooked just turned green and I have maybe three seedlings per pot (quite poor).

Thanks yall,
Tyson

Here's a link to an article I'm finding useful regarding raising out the young seedlings:
http://www.carnivorousplants.org/cpn/samples/Cult331NepSeedlings.htm
 
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  • #22
NOBODY is sterilizing their media - this requires an autoclave or a pressure cooker or something.

You're quite wrong. I can, have and do. Also, autoclaving at increased atmospheric pressure, say 1 atm, at 121˚C, aids in killing cysts and whatnot, which can survive in boiling water for extended periods of time -- even in a microwave.

Congrats on your first posting . . .
 
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  • #23
OK BigBella, care to share how you've been sowing your nep seeds then? Have you tried pasteurizing your media? I'll bet it would work beautifully for you when deflasking your TC Cephs.
 
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  • #24
OK, care to share how you've been sowing your nep seeds then? Have you tried pasteurizing your media? I'll bet it would work beautifully for explanting your TC Cephs.

My preferred compost for seed is a 2:1 mix of milled sphagnum to rinsed horticultural sand. It is saturated with distilled or RO water; autoclaved at 1 atm at 121˚ C, dependent upon its volume, for forty-five minutes or more, in canning or laboratory vessels; and is allowed to remain at 70˚ C for several hours.

The seed, if rare or its age uncertain, is treated with 250 ppm GA3 for twelve to twenty-four hours. Those that aren't placed in vitro, are planted in the room temperature compost and bagged, until germination occurs. Occasionally, the pots are treated with a Trichoderma solution, in the case of Heliamphora and even some Nepenthes seed.

My preference for rooting ex vitro Cephalotus, has always been the use of live sphagnum moss -- something that probably shouldn't see the inside of an autoclave . . .
 
  • #25
Almost every journal article I've read use an autoclave as the protocol to sterilize soil. 121°C from 15-60min at anywhere from ~1 to 15 atmospheres. Using a microwave is not usually recommended as samples heat unevenly and the steam may not penetrate all areas of the soil. Superheated steaming in an autoclave does not seem to significantly affect the micro-nutrients in the soil.

However master CP propagator flytraplady5 cautions that microwave treatment of peat moss causes it to break down more rapidly which will release the nutrients in the peat moss. This is probably not a problem if you transplant the seedlings before this happens.

Some "home" methods to sterilize soil (including microwave treatment):
http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/CoopExt/4DMG/Soil/sterile.htm
 
  • #26
Maybe it was a bad batch, but last time I boiled lfs....longer ago than this forum has been around, fungus broke out rampantly over the medium. I boiled it for maybe five minutes, which was longer than usual. It was Mosser Lee Wisconsin milled sphagnum(back then you could not find NZ or Chilean). I thought I had broken it down too much and ruined what anti-fungal properties it had. Maybe spores settled on it after it had cooled down.

Joe
 
  • #27
It was Mosser Lee Wisconsin milled sphagnum(back then you could not find NZ or Chilean). I thought I had broken it down too much and ruined what anti-fungal properties it had. Maybe spores settled on it after it had cooled down.

Joe

Five minutes of boiling would still allow dormant bacterial endospores to survive (which can withstand periods of gamma, UV radiation, desiccation exposure, etc); and fungal spores, which can also endure high temperatures (upwards of three hours at 140˚ C / 285˚ F to eliminate some varieties) . . .
 
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  • #28
I have read all the seed growing guides I could find in this forum but still have one question: if the seeds catch mold, is there anything that can be done? I planted Nepenthes seeds a few weeks ago and now some of the seeds have clearly mold on them. The soil seems fine (I sterilized it in the microwave oven). The containers are inside my lowland terrarium which has quite high humidity (70 %+). The containers theiselves are not in bags.
 
  • #29
Am also curious to know the answer, although my case is a little different to pmatil's.

I sowed mine in high walled takeaway containers (2" high?) with the lids loosely on, one batch got mold on the seeds but not the soil. Switched over to humidity domes and the mold seems to have gone away but I suspect the damage has already been done.
 
  • #30
I have read all the seed growing guides I could find in this forum but still have one question: if the seeds catch mold, is there anything that can be done?

I will take a shot at this one. A mist of H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) and pure water.
 
  • #31
I have read all the seed growing guides I could find in this forum but still have one question: if the seeds catch mold, is there anything that can be done? I planted Nepenthes seeds a few weeks ago and now some of the seeds have clearly mold on them. The soil seems fine (I sterilized it in the microwave oven). The containers are inside my lowland terrarium which has quite high humidity (70 %+). The containers theiselves are not in bags.

Misting the seeds with pressurized distilled water also works to beat back fungus on many seeds
 
  • #32
I will take a shot at this one. A mist of H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) and pure water.

Dave, any idea about the strength of the peroxide solution? And is rinsing required afterwards?
 
  • #33
I know some people soak non-cp seeds in 3% H2O2 before planting without ill-effect. I would err on the side of caution and use 3%, but dilute it even more with pure water that will drop the % even lower. I know I spoke to someone in the NECPS about this before specifically with nepenthes seeds. I will do it as an experiment on a few seeds of the next batch of nepenthes seeds I try to germinate. Yes, you could let it sit for a bit to kill the mold, then water again to rinse it. I will also plug using beneficial Tricoderma as a preventative measure.
 
  • #34
Now that I look at the seeds I got... Are these even pollinated? What do you think? I got them from amorphagod.

Seeds2.jpg
 
  • #35
They look fine. It doesnt even look like theyve been in there a month yet
 
  • #36
Now that I look at the seeds I got... Are these even pollinated? What do you think? I got them from amorphagod.

At a glance there don't appear to be any embryos in those seeds, but it's hard to tell for certain. Sometimes all you get is one or two embryos out of 2000 seeds!

H2O2 has been used to suppress fungi in seed-sowing media since the 1990s and is well documented. For most applications, it is appropriate to dilute one part drug store grade H2O2 with nine parts water and apply liberally to the soil every few days until the fungus is suppressed, then once a week or so after that.

Physan also works - just don't get it on live Sphagnum!

Another alternative with be a light sprinting with a fungicide whose active ingredient is propiconazole (Brand name: Banner Maxx, for example, apply as a spray, as directed on the label. It is NOT phytotoxic to Nepenthes. This is often sold formulated to control disease on roses - just make sure you locate a product that does NOT also contain insecticide or fertilizer)
 
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  • #37
Thanks Whimgrinder. I think I'll try the H2O2.
 
  • #38
It has now been about 3 months since sowing and I see something growing from one of the pots. Not 100% sure yet if it's nepenthes or just moss or fern growing from the LFS. The smaller one is so small my camera wouldn't focus on it (you can kind of see the seed from which it's growing).

N_Gracilis_Black2.jpg

N_Gracilis_Black3.jpg
 
  • #39
Second one looks like a nep seed to me, and I think the first is as well.

Good work!
 
  • #40
Definitely nep sprouts, congrats!
 
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