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Thread: Interesting seed germination instructions

  1. #9
    Moderator Cindy's Avatar
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    It is excellent that Dave manages to put across the need for a certain trigger for Nep germination. Recently I observed something that might add value to what he is doing with the seeds.

    Some nep seeds were sown in three containers with clear covers. Following months of inactivity, I decided to sow another batch of new seeds on top of them. I deliberately sowed different-looking seeds so that I can ID them later. Within a week, germination occurred. And they are seeds of the older batch! This happened in two separate containers.

    Either the older seeds felt the sudden
    1. lack of light or
    2. lack of space; perhaps they feel stiffled as they would by mosses

    I am not sure if Dave visits TF regularly. Would like to hear his comments on this.
    Cindy

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    Quote Originally Posted by phissionkorps View Post
    Wistuba lists it as fallax, and I trust his judgement a little more (except N. flava? What was he thinking ).

    Don't even get me started on Cantley...
    Feel free, go for it! It will be fun! Go on someone, get him started. Give us all a laugh!

    IMO, Dave's method should work perfectly well and doesn't deserve to be dissected bit by bit unless the person doing teh criticism knows by experience what he's talking about. This evidently isn't the case here. Nepenthes certainly can and do germinate in very low light and can continue from there, sometimes in very large population density, often remaining slow growing but healthy until opportunity gives them the light levels they are waiting for - which is very species dependent. The figure of 2% for wild Nepenthes germination quoted above is fictional, and whether or not a Nepenthes seed germinates has nothing whatever to do with high light levels. If a viable seed has all the other factors present it will germinate. Thereafter it needs but a little light to get going.

    I shan't bother to go into the rest, but thanks Joe for posting a practical guide to try to help people, and don't be put off by armchair criticism from people less experienced than you. As you said, this works for Dave and he wouldn't have posted it if he hadn't tried it.
    Rob Cantley
    Nep Nut in Sri Lanka
    http://www.borneoexotics.com

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    Giving seed higher light will get you a higher germination rate and seed will germinate faster. Maybe you should heed your own advice about not criticizing if you haven't tried it. I don't see how much growing you could be doing yourself with a staff of 55!
    If you think light has nothing to do with germination, then you have no idea what you're talking about. You're also the only 'prominent' figure in the nep field that I know of that doesn't accept the 2% germination rate in the wild that I know of, as I have heard it quoted many, many, many times. Again, you are denying what I say while providing absolutely no evidence to the contrary, and attempting to attack me. Let's not have another pitcherplants incident here. Maybe if you had a bio degree you would know how important light is for germination of seeds that stay on the surface .

    As I said on the other forum, I advise you to grow up and drop it; I thought we were past this.
    Z polski y dumny
    Prayer - how to do nothing and still think you're helping.
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  4. #12

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    Oh dear! It's OK for you to pull someone elses ideas to pieces on flimsy evidence but no-one is allowed to disagree with you. Then it becomes a personal attack, is that it?

    I did not say they don't need any light, I said high light levels. Do you imagine I just popped into existence with a nursery and staff of 55? For the first decade of my experience with Nepenthes, I ran a nursery with just me, myself and I. When I first started sowing Nepenthes seeds in nurseries (before you were born I might point out), I had them germinating in all sorts of different ways and soon came to realise that gloomy conditions are just fine for most species. It's natural in fact. It's easier to keep other parameters such as humidity tolerable with lower light levels too. Dave's growing guide is from personal experience not written by some armchair academic. By all means post your opinions and ideas, you don't have to agree with things either, but try reading the way you picked apart and criticised every sentence he had written.

    The 2% figure comes from where? Which species? what sample population? All species? I tell you it's fictional, or no more than an inspired guess. No-one has ever done a comprehensive survey on this. Sometimes a large proportion of the seeds from a wild plant will germinate, other times none at all. Depends on the situation.

    It really doesn't make any difference to the way Nepenthes seeds germinate as to who has or has not a bio degree. Some chip you're carrying there. You need to get out of your Lubbock classrooms and into the field ASAP, to round off your knowledge.
    Rob Cantley
    Nep Nut in Sri Lanka
    http://www.borneoexotics.com

  5. #13
    Always a newbie glider14's Avatar
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    Maybe if you had a bio degree you would know how important light is for germination of seeds that stay on the surface .
    science cant explain everything... thats all i have to say on this whole matter.

    Alex
    Everything is explainable. The seemingly unexplainable is but a result of our insufficient knowledge.- Hans Brewer

  6. #14
    Carnivorous plant enthusiast vraev's Avatar
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    well.....remember that SCIENCE in text books and most theories are made considering things in "IDEAL" conditions. Nature is not bound by those rules. Every species has its own requirement.

  7. #15
    N=R* fs fp ne fl fi fc L Pyro's Avatar
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    Funny, the guy I know who runs a TC lab and does a lot of CPs (Neps included) has told me flat out that if a trial batch of something new to culture does not show germination after a while he sets it in the dark along with starting a second batch that goes straight into the dark. So if his first hand experience and direct comments to me are anything to go by then I'd say Dave's ideas have merit.

    Oh and just in case it really matters, I am scant weeks away from a PhD in microbiology and my TC guy holds a biology degree. So I am not just some half whit who does not know biology.
    'My love was science- specifically biology and, more specifically, when placed in a common jar, which of two organisms would devour the other.'

    See You Space Cowboy

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    Rob and Pyro- It always seems it's the 'newbie know-it-alls' that like to challenge first hand and practical knowledge and experience. Pyro- many congratulations on your achievements and reaching your academic goals. Rob- seeing as you are one of the top 3 Nepenthes gurus on planet earth...your abilities and beautiful plants speak for themselves. Thanks to you, I have a splendid species collection; seed origin or not!

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