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Thread: Interesting seed germination instructions

  1. #17

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    What I say in terms of light intensity is based on my experiences as well, which pretty much negates the "armchair" comments. Every time I hear of someone with low germination, failed germination, or seeds that took months to germinate, the things they always have in common are low light and occasionally low humidity.

    Experience is great, but its nothing without knowledge of the subject as well. Would you let someone operate on you that's never been to medical school but has done it before? Me neither. I think you are all also forgetting that just because a way works doesn't mean its the best way, and there are multiple ways to do almost anything. But jeez...you guys are right. There's no way I could ever challenge one of "the gurus"! I mean...one of "the gurus" being wrong, about anything, ever? No way! I guess you're right that no one else's personal experience, especially when in opposition to any of theirs, could ever mean anything. Guess I'll just go sit in the corner, only listen to 3 people and their religious fans, and make sure no advances whatsoever in the nep world happen, unless its at the hand of those 3 (well technically 4). Wouldn't want to figure something out only to be told I'm wrong about it immediately, especially by people that only believe one person about everything. This is starting to remind me of organized religion
    Z polski y dumny
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    Quote frpm PK:
    "I think you are all also forgetting that just because a way works doesn't mean its the best way, and there are multiple ways to do almost anything."

    I could be wrong here, but isn't everyone saying that there ARE different methods to germinate Nepenthes seed?



    Cheers,

    Joe

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    All I'm saying is every time I've personally gotten low or no germination, its been the result of low light. With others I've talked to with low or no germination, it's been low light and/or low humidity. I'm not saying low light absolutely will not ever work, but I can't see it being a preferred method based on greater success of seeds in high light.
    Z polski y dumny
    Prayer - how to do nothing and still think you're helping.
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  4. #20
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    Sounds like we need a real experiment!

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    Moderator Cindy's Avatar
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    JLAP, I agree totally.

    I do happen to have two boxes of bicalcarata seeds freshly sown. I need some help here...

    phissionkorps, what do you consider as high light? I will keep both boxes covered but one will be placed under flourescent light. My light provides 10,000lux which is bright daylight at around 4" beneath the tube. It can be brighter and warmer if I bring it closer

    Should I follow Daves instruction for the second box? Or should I just leave it under FL too but block out the light? Someone decide.
    Cindy

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    Well I give my seeds roughly 12,000 lumens, which is equal to 12,000 candela/sqft. Since lux is equal to candela/sqm, you are going to need to give them roughly 129,166 lux to be equivalent to my conditions (considering humidity/temp is the same). Day temps are always the same for me since I grow everything inside, and the chamber the lights are in operates at a constant 40C. Night temps vary depending on the season, and can be anywhere from 80 to 50F.
    Z polski y dumny
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  7. #23
    N=R* fs fp ne fl fi fc L Pyro's Avatar
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    Experience is great, but its nothing without knowledge of the subject as well.
    Oh so now the head of TC for Atlanta Botanical Gardens, who has been doing this sort of thing for probably 20 years, has no "knowledge of the subject"? Good to know. I'll be sure and let him know you said that when I am there this weekend.

    Would you let someone operate on you that's never been to medical school but has done it before?
    I am sorry, terminal logic flaw, apples to oranges there. Rob has years of experience, Dave has years of experience, My TC person has years of experience. You on the other hand have been here for how long? 16 months? So, the proper logical argument would be:

    Would you let someone operate on you who is fresh out of med school and has little practical experience or someone who has been doing it for years and is considered an expert in the type of operation.

    No contest here, I am going with the person who has done it longer.

    I think you are all also forgetting that just because a way works doesn't mean its the best way
    Actually you seem to be the one who has forgotten that. THis post goes up and you immediatly jump on it and say "Nope, sorry. Wrong wrong WRONG!!" Then other people come in and say "Well it seems to work for me." And you say "NO! It does not work!"

    There is not a single place in this thread where you actually concede that the technique could work. All you do is blast everyone for thinking it could and point out how the entire world is wrong but you are right.

    There's no way I could ever challenge one of "the gurus"! I mean...one of "the gurus" being wrong, about anything, ever? No way! I guess you're right that no one else's personal experience, especially when in opposition to any of theirs, could ever mean anything.
    Nopt at all. Anyone can challenge anyone else. But if you don't have a case to back yourself up then throwing a fit is not the answer.

    I have challenged many an "expert" in my time. Sometimes I have "won" and sometimes I have "lost" but everytime I came out having learned something because I went in with an open mind. Guess my ego is secure enough that I can admit when I am wrong.

    And the flipside is that "experts" (real experts, not self-proclaimed know-it-alls) are more than happy to revise their own views if given a proper argument to.

    For example, few would argue if I said that Fernando is the expert in S. American Drosera. I recall once he told Tamlin that Tamlin's proposed method for growing D. graminifolia was going to fail. And a year later when Tamlin posted pics of his huge and blooming plant Fernando flat out said that he had been wrong. And rather than go out of his way to point out how he had trumped Fernando, Tamlin simply said "Thank you."

    Another example, and we'll use Rob and Neps since that is more relevant. In his 20000 rajah thread ROb talks about how the plants are planted straight into the clay soil. Now if anyone else had said that, without a doubt the first reply would have been that it was BS. Even I thought that at first and figured that Rob just had a different definition of clay than what I had. But I have looked at the pics closer and am emailing Rob more about it and sure enough that clay is just like the stuff that makes up the majority of the soil here in Atlanta. I still find it hard to believe because we are all told that Neps need well draining soil and if there is one thing clay is not it is well draining. And yet, obviously rajah grow quite well in the stuff. If Rob had made the comment without pics I would have called for proof straight away. And then he would have posted the pics and I would have admitted I was wrong. I would have challenged him, he would have met the challenge and in the end neither of us would be worse off for it. In fact, I would appreciate Rob's expertise more and I would hope Rob would respect me a little more for being willing to question him on the one hand and then willing to admit that he was right on the other.

    Guess I'll just go sit in the corner, only listen to 3 people and their religious fans, and make sure no advances whatsoever in the nep world happen, unless its at the hand of those 3 (well technically 4). Wouldn't want to figure something out only to be told I'm wrong about it immediately, especially by people that only believe one person about everything.
    If that is the attitude you want to take then go right ahead. It is childish to say the least but you are free to do what you want.

    All I'm saying is every time I've personally gotten low or no germination, its been the result of low light.
    Really? How do you know that? I mean absolutly positivley 100% know that to be the undenyable fact. Retroactive thought does not make it so. Unless ou had a controlled experiment going then you can not make that assertation as fact.

    With others I've talked to with low or no germination, it's been low light and/or low humidity.
    And you know that for certain because you were actually there watching everything that happened and you know for a fact that something else did not happen? It is not possible that maybe they just dodn;t have a lot of experience with seed so they did not give them too much water or not enough heat or missed a fungal bloom. I personally suck with growing most things from seed. Must be the poor light even though the seed I have germinated has been right there under the 1000W bulb next to the ones I failed with...

    I'm not saying low light absolutely will not ever work, but I can't see it being a preferred method based on greater success of seeds in high light.
    I hate to have to tell you this but you are not then end all and be all. Your opinion and experiences do not change the nature of the universe and what actually is and is not. So you can not see the method being a prefered method. That does not change the fact that, for a number of others it does indeed work. And it sure as Hades does not give you the right to come down on those people who say it works for them nor does it give you the right to blast people just because you disagree with them.
    Last edited by Pyro; 08-10-2007 at 07:04 AM.
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  8. #24
    Moderator Cindy's Avatar
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    Hi peeps,

    I now have one box of bicalcarata seeds under bright light and another in low light. I will give details of light intensity and temperature tomorrow. The boxes are covered so I assume humidity as 100%.
    Cindy

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