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Thread: Chronically deformed N. ramispina

  1. #25
    Doing it wrong until I do it right. xvart's Avatar
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    First of all, I'm still not convinced it's a mutation. Second of all...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ant View Post
    Evolution is caused mutations!
    Quote Originally Posted by vraev View Post
    uuh....mutant infected gene pool?? thats evolution my friend.... mutants have led to selection...selection has led to the wonderful diversity...the bical's teeth, the linguata (or whatever's ) elephant tongue.
    Thanks for the lessons on evolution, guys. I understand how evolution works. My point is that there is no evolutionary advantage to these mutants. Most likely, this "mutation," if it is actually a mutation, is because of hormones from TC, not because this N. ramispina is adapting to the standard conditions of typical grow rooms across the country.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ant View Post
    Would you distroy a car with a dent if it made it look good?
    No, I wouldn't destroy a car with a dent in it; but, it's a little more difficult to correct a small error on a plant than it is on a car; thus, making the space on a shelf infinitely more valuable.

    The point about mutant Nepenthes and crossing them and "infecting" the gene pool was more in regards to other monstrous mutants, like the one shown in this thread. You want that crossed with your N. rajah's?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ant View Post
    From the biological perspective and coservation perspective it should be allowed to live because without mutation the plants wouldn't exist or any other eukaryotic(spelling?) thing.
    This plant isn't in nature my friend. This plant will have nothing to do with the evolutionary development of the Nepenthes species. Yes, mutation in the wild and natural selection helped shape and form the variety of Nepenthes species; but unfortunately, this N. ramispina will not. This plant will never be reintroduced into the wild. It will never have an impact on the family of Nepenthes. If the mutation was worse, as in the case of the link above, the only thing it will ever do it be a novelty in some growers collection; OR, it will annoy others who happen to get seed that may have been accidentally set with the mutant. AND, I'm still not clear how mutant help conservation, other than allowing one plant to live (I'll assume that's what you meant).

    Quote Originally Posted by vraev View Post
    but unless it was that ugly I wouldn't trade it away....let alone kill it.
    Would you trade it away if it would make available space for another plant that you really want?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ant View Post
    Oh, say if a teacher was handing out books all blue and only one green, isn't normal for most to want the green?
    Ummm... what? If there was someone handing out cars after school and all of them were nice and new and one of them was a banged up, dented, piece of crap; isn't it normal for most to want the piece of crap? Just because something is, dare I say, unique, does not make it more valuable or increase it's demand. It's a novelty; not the next Mona Lisa.

    Ughh... Sorry to get off topic in your thread, Clint. Does anyone else have experience with a N. ramispina of similar size? Is it actually a mutation or just growing conditions?

    xvart.
    "The tragedy of life is not that every man loses; but that he almost wins."

    "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

  2. #26
    Carnivorous plant enthusiast vraev's Avatar
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    yeah! but this "little" "feature" is no where in comparision with that other mutant you refer to. As u can see its a plant thats thriving and looks fantastic. BTW....no if that was my plant I wouldn't trade it away as apart from that "unique" dent...its still a good ramispina with wonderful red leaves.

    Whatever, its Clint's choice with it being his plant. So I guess there is no point of us trying to argue about what he should do with it.

    BTW....I have a ramispina...maybe not that size...but it doesn't show a dent like that. I ahve seen wild ramispina pics and hundreds of other ramispina pics but I have never seen that dent in any of them.

  3. #27
    Doing it wrong until I do it right. xvart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vraev View Post
    yeah! but this "little" "feature" is no where in comparision with that other mutant you refer to.
    You are correct. If you recall, the only reason I mentioned the other mutants was because there was some dispute about why in heaven's name someone would not want a mutant plant.

    Quote Originally Posted by vraev View Post
    Whatever, its Clint's choice with it being his plant. So I guess there is no point of us trying to argue about what he should do with it.
    You are exactly right. I was never arguing what Clint should do with the plant. I could really care less. I read Clint's post, and as such, I was able to decode the message between the lines when he said he would rather have another plant instead because he lacks sufficient growing space for more than one.

    Quote Originally Posted by vraev View Post
    BTW....I have a ramispina...maybe not that size...but it doesn't show a dent like that. I ahve seen wild ramispina pics and hundreds of other ramispina pics but I have never seen that dent in any of them.
    So I wonder if it is some specific environmental factors that cause the plant to do this. Granted, one person said it was only on one pitcher, and then someone else said it was on all pitchers. Maybe the plants mentioned all came from the same source and there was something that happened while in TC. It is a good looking plant. It certainly has grown a lot since it left my hands. I think it actually likes me better than you, Clint!

    xvart.
    "The tragedy of life is not that every man loses; but that he almost wins."

    "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

  4. #28
    Do you like that... MrFus's Avatar
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    The plant dont look so bad at all...

    But I can figure for some people this plant will not be part of the collection because is a mutant, and even if the plant have all the physical characteristics that a healty one should show, the mutation is still not natural... I guess some people will not collect non natural hybrids too...

    I will keep it, just for the love to the plants...
    But I agree on the fact that this mutants should dont be propagated to avoid any risk of get it accidentaly or intentionaly crossed with other nepenthes and get really deform mutations.

    And plus is the point of the room too.

    N. Albomarginata, N. Ampullaria
    N. Bellii, N. Bicalcarata, N. Rafflesiana
    N. Sanguinea (Orange Pitcher), Cephalotus Follicularis
    .

    http://www.knology.net/~fus

  5. #29
    Californian in DC DrWurm's Avatar
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    I'd take an ugly mutant plant. I think imperfections and uniqueness are cool, and not a "waste of space." I think the dent looks pretty interesting. I mean, as long as you don't let it breed with any other plants, it's not gonna hurt anyone.

  6. #30
    Your one and only pest! Ant's Avatar
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    Well the plant isn't a banged up car, its looks great. How do you know that wont aid the plant in catching bugs? Isn't it smooth and maybe the insects will land on thinking it is solid ground and fall off. If a mutation is bad for the plant they die out when it is good for the plant it carries on its genes. There is something called natural selection and it will make sure good genes go on and bad ones die. I don't really care what he does with it.

  7. #31

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    Hi,

    I think this is a totally normal ramispina, mine is showing the same dent, in variable occurance. Surf around on CP Photofinder and you will see plants with dent just like this one!

  8. #32
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    You guys seem personally offended that I would not want this plant Ant, your points made about this characteristic aren't really valid at all. None of my plants catch any bugs, other than perhaps a few fungus gnats, the inside wall is slippery anyway, a mutation doesn't have to be good or bad, and this plant is in cultivation. It's a clone. Probably the same as Jayson's. There is no natural selection in a terrarium in a basement. An odd pitcher with a dent isn't that big of a deal, but every single pitcher since I've had it? I mean... come on! I want a dent less plant. I just looked at a lot of pics on the photo finder, and while I did find dented pitchers, the majority had dent less pitchers. This is, IMO, what it should look like:

    http://www.nepenthesaroundthehouse.com/nramisp.htm

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