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"Unpotting" with LFS

xvart

Doing it wrong until I do it right.
Staff member
Moderator
Gang -

There have been several discussion over the past couple of weeks over the merits (or lack of) of LFS as the sole or a portion of potting mix: I've only ever used pure LFS a handful of times, and have since slowly repotted everything out of it. Today, I finally had the time, and enough of the other mixes I prefer to use on hand so I took the liberty of unpotting my last pure LFS plant. I thought it might be of benefit to "document" this process.

My experience "unpotting" from LFS is always frustrating. The roots and LFS make a terribly tangled mess. It was near impossible to even come close to removing it all without massive root damage; unless I wanted to spend even more time and energy attempting to do so, at the possible cost of more root damage. Imagine a 8" pot with a depth of 8", full of LFS. After about ten minutes, I was left with this:

LFSRootsMass002.jpg


LFSRootsMass004.jpg


LFSRootsMass005.jpg


During the process I know I lost several roots as I could see them in the pile at the bottom. However, I know it didn't cause any permanent damage and will certainly recover. I only wish the LFS still in the ball would quickly turn into a slime and melt out the bottom of the pot and leave the new mix all by itself.

The dregs:

LFSRootsMass006.jpg


After working a little more, I finally repotted what was left in, in my opinion, a much preferable mix (orchid bark, some charcoal, perlite, some peat, and a pinch of LFS):

LFSRootsMass007.jpg


And, now we all get a chance to see why xvart is going to sleep on the couch tonight! (Just kidding) It was much worse, but I did quite a bit of cleanup of the dirty water that was spotting the carpet and the LFS shreds that were everywhere.

LFSRootsMass008.jpg


xvart.
 
why did you not do this outside?
 
why did you not do this outside?

Well... The short answer would be that all my supplies are in this room, and I don't want 150 college students walking by me asking what I'm doing.

xvart.
 
you should like put newspapers down nextime.
 
come on guys....its irrelevent to the main topic.

i personally like LFS. but i have made changes since i first started using it! first i used striaght LFS, nothing else. then i moved to LFS and perlite. and now im at a mix of LFS perlite and cypress mulch. really good drainage but holds water well. since im limited on how much water i can use(no RO filter) that mix will be my best bet. however i would hands down use a lighter mix given the chance. the main downside i see to it is repotting. its horrid :) my big sanguinea is in a pot of straight LFS. fantastic.... thatll be a trip to repot. :)

Alex

BTW: is that a Sabre? looks really nice!
 
I only use pure LFS because I can't water often. If I could, I'd go with 1/1/1 orchid mix/perlite/LFS.

It looks like the LFS was in good shape. If you were repotting into pure LFS again, there wasn't really a reason to tear it up. I guess LFS is only a problem if you ever plan on switching. Still, you're plant won't be set back too far.
 
Good idea to document this!

Pure LFS does wonders for cuttings, but generally I pot them out into normal stuff after several weeks.

Btw, I do most of my soil change indoors, like you. It's pretty cold out here. ;)
 
you should like put newspapers down nextime.

lol. Yeah, guys. I'd like to think I'm a fairly bright guy. The point is, I just don't care. My vacuum will take care of it quickly. But thanks for the suggestions, anyways... ;)

my big sanguinea is in a pot of straight LFS. fantastic.... thatll be a trip to repot. :)

Yeah, I can't even imagine! I can't remember when I got this plant... maybe six months? I can't even imagine trying to repot something massive or well established like philcula's rajah that he was talking about. It's just a mess. The roots wrap around and between every little piece of LFS... Ugh. I've even stopped using LFS at the bottom of the pot to prevent mix from draining out because I've had some big root systems that go straight to the bottom and then just circle around and around and in and out of the LFS making even worse knots.


and now im at a mix of LFS perlite and cypress mulch. really good drainage but holds water well.

Yeah, I understand completely. Which is exactly why I still use some throughout the mix, to hold some more water, but not be a total determinant to clogging up the root system.

It looks like the LFS was in good shape. If you were repotting into pure LFS again, there wasn't really a reason to tear it up. I guess LFS is only a problem if you ever plan on switching. Still, you're plant won't be set back too far.

Guess where I got it? ;) It was in good shape. I wish I would've taken a before picture because the top looked great, nice and fluffy green. Picture perfect presentation. I am actually surprised it was doing so well since I had been fertilizing the LFS for however long I've had it. I was under the impression that ferts zapped LFS quickly.

If you were repotting into pure LFS again, there wasn't really a reason to tear it up. I guess LFS is only a problem if you ever plan on switching. Still, you're plant won't be set back too far.

Yes, I was switching it around. I'm not worried at all about the plant. I was careful, had minimal damage, and it's a vigorous clone. My frustration was more about the difficulty of the process and not how scared I was of the plant kicking the bucket.

Pure LFS does wonders for cuttings, but generally I pot them out into normal stuff after several weeks.

Good point about cuttings. I have no problem with it when used sparingly or on smaller plants, but again, teasing this small root mass was near a nightmare. Imagine a 12" or 18" pot full of LFS and it starting to go bad! In my new mix, even if it does turn to mush, at least there is other stuff like bark to "fill in" and still support the plant.

Btw, I do most of my soil change indoors, like you. It's pretty cold out here. ;)

It's the only way to fly.

BTW: is that a Sabre? looks really nice!

Thanks, Alex. You are correct. Here's a few more pictures. The other thing I hate about repotting, especially into bigger pots with longer tendril plants is they are so janktafied afterwards with the pitchers leaning all sorts of unnatural ways, as you'll see. I went with larger hanging pots because I'm thinking about moving them to my office by a nice window, or just adjusting some of my shelves to accomodate. The N. Black Dragon has especially long tendrils and I was already hanging it over the side of the shelf so they wouldn't get all tangled in the wire shelving. The light they were receiving was sufficient, but not adequate by my standards.

NSabre-5308.jpg


RepottingPics1.jpg


RepottingPics2.jpg


And now for the unnatural presentation of my pitchers leaning every possible direction...

RepottingPics3.jpg


RepottingPics4.jpg


xvart.
 
Very nice sabre xvart. I plan on repotting a few plants soon. Im thinking of the same mix you are switching to.
 
  • #10
Xvart,

I noticed from you pictures that many of your Neps are not potted in the center of their pots, but actually on the outside, and I just received a Nep that I ordered that was also not centered in its pot. Is there some special significance or special Nep potting knowledge that I am missing out on, or did they just happen to turn out that way? Thanks for a reply!

Zach
 
  • #11
horrible mess...i can wait to replant mine lol

pretty plants though mate
 
  • #12
Hi Zach,

Nope. No special significance. I'm just not very good and centering plants. Or the root ball tilts one direction or another while filling in the gaps.

xvart.
 
  • #13
I just repotted a nep that has been sitting in the same stuff, probably since it came from the wholesaler however long that was. I hope I didn't stress it too much when removing the LFS but I must confess that I did pot it in more LFS, but there was bark, some peat and perlite. It was a mess indeed.

And what is it withall of these pics that I see of grow racks over bare carpet?? I'm just as guilty but I just assumed that it was me being lazy. Glad to see that I'm not the only one. Hey, we spend potential plant money on vacuum cleaners so we'd better get some good use out of them, right?
 
  • #14
I always throw down some 6mil plastic sheeting to prevent tannin-laced water and dirt from getting all over the place.
 
  • #15
I've got plastic below mine also. I'm in an apt, and I'm sure they'd love to nail me for damage costs.

On topic: Yeah, I hate LFS. Never actually potted with the stuff, but I have started to use it as a top dressing as my media was drying out since I'm outta town 4 days a week. My wife can't be bothered to water for me - she wants nothing to do with my hobby, lol.
 
  • #16
And what is it withall of these pics that I see of grow racks over bare carpet?? I'm just as guilty but I just assumed that it was me being lazy. Glad to see that I'm not the only one. Hey, we spend potential plant money on vacuum cleaners so we'd better get some good use out of them, right?

Yeah, my wife and I bought a Dyson with last year's tax return... As for the carpet, I have a large "rubbermade-like" thing below where I actually water so little water gets on the carpet. It's a little more time consuming cycling plants from one spot to another, but no biggie. I've only got so much time and energy to upgrade the physical parts of my growing area... lol.

xvart.
 
  • #17
LFS IMO is the worst thing for Nepenthes. I thought it was the best thing since sliced bread in the beginning. After it breaks down and suffocates one of your favorite plants you change your mind. I would recommend people potting in an open mix and if they cannot water like they want they should setup a fountain pump to water the plants every so often. Semi Hydroponics setup. I was looking at pumps the other day. The smallest is 20 bucks and a timer is cheap for a good multi set time one.
 
  • #18
How can you hate it without ever using it, Nightsky?

Do you guys use the cheap, brown stuff that's like half the price and twice the volume of the good, blonde stuff? Because it takes about two years, in my conditions, before I feel it's not at the quality that I demand. By that time it's time to repot anyway, and you can still recycle the old stuff for your peat-based media. Are you fertilizing the media?
 
  • #19
Clint. I have used it and I have also killed a plant in it. The albo you sent me in Live stuff is now dead. I buy the good stuff too Clint. Had other plants I planted in it that are were not doing good.

Although I am a heavier waterer than you probably were.
 
  • #20
Maybe that's it. I water every three to four days. Sometimes every five. Everything "dries" out in between waterings.
 
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