User Tag List

Informational! Informational!:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 17 to 24 of 45

Thread: Want to grow Highland/UltraHi Nepenthes ?

  1. #17
    cmm889's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Lawrence, Kansas
    Posts
    551
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hey, Appreciate the thread I think its a really great idea that someone has been needing to address, hopefully you can take care of it so we can grow our plants and you can add alittle monthly income

    eitherway, my only real thoughts since I'm not an engineer and master of all the materials listed...

    -I think the glass is a better way to go at least for the front.
    - I think you should assume they will get no additional sunlight and that light will be fully artificial.
    - Appearance is a big deal for those who are married and in family situations where it would be nice for someone with the background to create something we can put out for everyone to see ( I shamefully look at my shabby thrifty wirefilled tank )
    - Maybe options as far as the level for automated-ness? not everyone will have the same budget guidelines or may already have things they can use, or may want to "tweak" in their own personal way, offering a more basic package to a delux package I think would be a great option and allow you to recieve more business...

    as far as lighting is concerned it'd be hard for me to say what you should use, T-5's are so great yet pose such a heat problem especially for HL's, ( of course that can be dealt with if thoroughly thought out ) LED's may be a great option to pursue? their smaller can sometimes be found for cheap and can be incredibly intense...

    I've also seen people work wonders with CFL's and I dont mean in a shoplight fixture type of way, but I've seen great homemade hoods with 6 or 8 standard home fixtures in a great esthetically pleasing housing. using these would allow people to easily replace if necessary, their also cheap, space efficient and can yield great results...

    I know my thoughts werent all encompassing but I didnt want to be guilty of reading and not posting my opinions.

    Thanks again for posting.
    Chris

  2. #18
    Nepenthesian Nepfreak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    MA, USA
    Posts
    768
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm probably your perfect "sucker" customer because I'm just not that handy . The bottom line is, I'd like something that works no matter the outside environment. If the chamber cools down to the 50s at night no matter what, that would be good enough for me to consider buying it. Of course, automation would be great and if it looks nice, even better. But the top priority is effectiveness. For instance, I'd rather have an ugly metal box that cools down to 51 degrees every night than a pretty glass showcasey thing that cools down to 65. Regarding cost... I'm only 15 years old so I can't exactly afford a thousand dollar setup. To me, 100 dollars is a million and another ten a miracle. Nevertheless, I can see why a very good chamber could reasonably cost $1000 or more.
    Insanity is a sane response to an insane world.

  3. #19
    Not Growing Up! GrowinOld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    ARTificial Bog in da' Middle of da' USA
    Posts
    932
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Thanks and a Free Treat!

    Hello again all,
    Thank you again for all your input. You have no idea how much your "sincere" input helps in designing things such as this.

    Nepfreak, I can certainly understand your situation. I am looking into the wholesale costs of "parts" and manufacturing. It is a bit depressing, however I am not letting some corporate overpricing get in the way. I am doing my best to find a way to keep the price of these units down as low as I can. (While I want to make an honest living, I don't want to be ripping off "15 year olds" to do it!)

    cmm889, You don't need to be an engineer to have good ideas! That's part of the reason I asked everyone here for an opinion. Even 15 yr. olds have something important to say about this subject, and I value the opinions of those who are doing the actual growing (or wanting to grow) these plants.

    Rattler_mt, Tony, and everyone else.... I am glad you all decided to write. So far out of 376 people who were interested enough to read this thread, only 17 of you felt your opinion was of any value or bothered to take the time to write.
    My real concern down the line is if there is much of an "audience" for these units. It is going to be a lot of work and expense for me if I only end up selling 17 of these things!

    By the way, a little treat for some of you.... an idea I wanted to share:
    (Disclaimer/Note: If you aren't "handy", building your own equiptment can be extremely dangerous! This information is being presented for discussion and information exchange only. Actual application should be carefully considered by those of you who are qualified to build and test such units, and I cannot be held responsible for any negative situation arising from the actual building, application and use of these. I have NOT built and or tested these, and the ideas shown herein are for information/idea exchange only. Build one at your own risk!)

    I do know that many of you are doing "plastic wrapped, wire shelf units" for growing. I also have been reading a lot of you are having problems with the heat your lights are producing, and how to vent these without loosing the much needed humidity inside.

    I have a few ideas on how to deal with this situation, and have drawn up a rough sketch of one of them for consideration. I am not trying to make money off of this! (Just wanted to share a little something with those of you who have bothered to write and help me out with your opinions.)


    I don't know if/how this would work out for you, but it is a simple way to isolate the outside air form the inside air. The excess heat from the lamps is "bad", so it needs to be handled as outside air. Running metal exhaust duct (from the hardware store) across the shelf unit, sticking out of the plastic on both sides, and cutting a hole in it to accomodate the ballast portion of the lamp will assist in removing the heat generated by the ballast and a little bit of the heat produced bt the lamps themselves. Some of the heat produced bt the bulbs will still heat the inside of the chamber however, and your results will vary depending on the type/design of fixture you are using.

    If you do a good job caulking with the appropriate temp. caulking, you should effectively isolate the inside humid air from the outside air. A 5' piece of duct shoud accomodate shelves under 5'wide. A "muffin" fan at the end serves to draw the heated air out of the duct, without pulling the humidified air from within the chamber.

    If you remove the bulbs, caulk the fixture into the metal duct, let dry and replace bulbs after installing duct/light fixture, the seal should be complete.

    (If you cannot understand the diagram, you should not be trying to make this anyway!) Do be careful working with sheetmetal (VERY sharp!). And do NOT depend on the caulking to support the weight of the fixture itself. Chains, wire or other support brackets should be used for ALL items of appreciable weight.

    If you have any opinions on this, please feel free to express them. Especially if you think it will help you out or find that it does. Again, I do not have a setup like this, so do not have one in use anyway, nor do I need one, so making and testing it is something I have not done.

    Well, to those of you who have written, thanks again for all of your help thus far. I will possibly be in touch with some of you in the future, and will try to post again when I can.

    Good Growing!
    Paul
    Experience is the best teacher. At least it used to be.
    But then, common sense isn't so common anymore, is it.


    http://www.terraforums.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=113866

  4. #20
    rattler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    missing, presumed dead
    Posts
    8,554
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    lol......love all your warnings.......told the wife the last thing we do after remodeling the bedroom is lay carpet....cause blood will be spilled and i dont want yah yelling at me for getting blood on your new carpet

    like i said i can make something that works, im very good at jerry rigging bout anything so that it will get the job done but it winds up looking like some half arsed backwoods hillbilly setup(which it is).....so when im buying something apposed to making im looking at looks.....have to say may biggest worry is reliably cooling the tank to 50 in a room with an ambiant temp of 90-95(80 is the norm high but have to look at likely worst case senarios)....and doing so without killing my electric bill......to badly anyways.....would think it would have to be insulated fairly well on all sides and ideally have double pane windows for viewing........yah know the more i think about it i have no clue how yah would go about building units in the size i want in anyway but a custom basis...........interested to see what yah might come up with, even rough prototypes.........
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

  5. #21
    Av8tor1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    4,811
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Paul,

    With the T5 platform you may run into some issues. The bulb efficiency is directly proportional to bulb temp. The optimum cold spot temperature of the bulb should be approx 45c. This is measured approx just past the metal ring (the point where mercury condensates in the discharge tube at the stamped end of the lamp). The temperature at the center of the bulbs in my fixtures runs approx 165f with a cold spot of 35-40c (using infrared thermometer)

    Take this temp rise and multiply it times the 6 48" long bulbs and you begin to see the scope of the problem, you cant cool the bulbs yet you must isolate the plants from their heat

    Now most T5 ballast may be remotely mounted up to 20' away... but compared to the temp rise of the bulbs this is a minor point.

    What you might consider and what I have tried to mimic is a wind curtain, it is a technology that I have experience with from industry. It is simple and if properly designed very effective.

    Here is a good primer on the subject

    HTH's
    Av

  6. #22
    Not Growing Up! GrowinOld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    ARTificial Bog in da' Middle of da' USA
    Posts
    932
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Next!

    Hi Av8!

    I know the bulbs are hotties! Another idea I had (I mentioned having a few...) shown below, involves using a piece of tempered glass to seal off the whole fixture, bulbs and all. The drawback is lighting "thru" another pane of glass, which some people object to.



    I don't have a problem with this myself, as we have to make consolations somewhere, and try to do it where it hurts the least, however some people (and their plants) have stricter lighting requirements. Some of mine do, but overall for my Neps I haven't had problems with not enough light, even when I have an extra pane of glass between the lights and the plants.
    I would like to hear opinions about about which plants people have found need more/less light. Most of my Neps grow great with much less light than my sundew, VFT's and Sarr's.
    But then, that's my experience thus far.

    As far as the wind curtain goes, while I don't have much exposure in working with or knowing that technology well enough (I do like a similar technology used for drying hands called "wind blade", which was the best hand dryer I ever used! It's amazing and fast!), however from what I gather, I don't know if the wind curtain application would be a bit beyond what the average home handyman is capable of building, and with the size/application we are looking at here, without further study I am uncertain how the wind curtain would affect the humidity/air in the chamber. (Unless I am mistaking the method of operation you are looking at.) It appears to be nice technology, but I don't know enough about it to really say one way or another. (I would like to know more about what you are thinking of as in how to apply it for a typical wire-shelf grow chamber in the average grower's basement.)

    It is nice to hear ideas and thoughts that are quite different than my own, as that is the way to trigger and create even better new ideas. So I do appreciate your input. (Again, I don't know enough about Wind Curtain technology and how it would ultimately affect the chamber's air temp./humidity. The "force field" look of course is quite appealing!)

    Like I said earlier, I do have quite a few ideas on this light-heat situation, and simply wanted to throw one out there to share with the hope of helping someone solve their heat situation. I am glad to hear others are thinking about it, especially when their ideas and knowledge are "outside my box of thinking"! It certainly helps me broaden my view.


    Thanks again Av, and let me know what you think of this "adjustment".

    I know every idea will have flaws in it. It's going to be a matter of which idea solves the problem the best, without also creating more, larger problems in the process. (Kind of like medication and all it accompanying "bad side effects"!

    Good Growing!
    Paul
    Experience is the best teacher. At least it used to be.
    But then, common sense isn't so common anymore, is it.


    http://www.terraforums.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=113866

  7. #23
    JMurphy97's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Milwaukee
    Posts
    1,250
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Well for me the main thing would be cooling. Night temps would have to be cold enough for the most picky of the ultrahighland neps. Day temps would have to mild 70's, yet have enough light. Maybe have it 4 feet long and have a built in stand to sit on.

  8. #24
    Av8tor1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    4,811
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Paul,

    As you guessed it does require constant humidification, at least in my system it does. So yep... they have their own issues.

    Wind curtains are/were commonly seen in grocery store display cases. (the open, frozen food models that use to be so common years ago)

    I have often pondered a glass pane solution, But would the glass pane eventually become nearly as hot as the bulbs unless it had enough external surface area to dissipate the heat? Personally, I run an 18 hr on, 6 hr off photoperiod during the summer.

    Maybe have the glass mounted to a heat sink of some sort or constant convection cooling simular a typical double pane oven door. (which in a sense, I guess is a form of wind curtain)

    I don't know, and I don't have a good answer.....

    It seems that LED's are probably the best long term solution. I have been experimenting with them for the last 6 months. The have surpassed my expectations in many ways, but also shown their limitations.

    Currently, the price vs. footprint issue is a problem. A 300$ light will only suffice for a 2sq. ft. area. Plant growth was good to very good, but not very aesthetically pleasing if used alone.

    A hybrid of fluorescents and LED's as Dave S. mentioned, or the LED light engines NASA are using on the ISS ALS (International space station advanced life support project) may very well be the best solution.

    http://gravitationalandspacebiology....e/viewFile/2/2

    But then if it was easy, everyone would have one

    anxious to follow your progress

    Av

    Edit:

    Paul,
    Heliamphora will be the gold standard for light intensity... I had to move all my neps to a lower rack, they could not handle the output of the 6xT5 fixure while on the top shelf. For a non heli setup it should be no issue to single or double pane a T5 for isolation purposes. My application would be the exception, not the norm.
    Last edited by Av8tor1; 09-09-2008 at 12:53 PM. Reason: add comment

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •