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Seedlings! Roots! Wow!

I recently traded a few Nepenthes seedlings. I got to inspect their roots as well. I was surprised to find...

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They have surprisingly large root systems. At least, larger than I expected to find.

My fingers are about 1/2" across at the joint (for a size comparison).
 
Wow, that really is long o.o Thanks for sharing!
 
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They are N. splendiana complex hybrids. The first two are N. splendiana x ((veitchii x maxima) x veitchii), and the last one is either N. splendiana x mixta or N. splendiana x medusa.
 
I saw a root system on a seedgrown hamata seedling that was an inch across and an inch down.
 
I bet you did!

It makes you see just how ill-prepared fresh TC plants are for real-world growing. SG plants have a large root system to rely on, so they are easier to adapt to new conditions. Not that TC is bad. ;)
 
I carefully pried (Lol!) these two seedlings when I was separating them to trade. Well, I managed not to break their roots, but I didn't want to separate them:

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Wow.
 
Ya know, I tried germinating these things this past summer. Nothing happened. What were your conditions?
 
Same as the D. ordensis, pretty much. I find that using a large pot with LFS works very well for Nep seeds, although a peat/vermiculite mix works decently (appears to produce weaker roots, but too early to tell). Peat/perlite is a nightmare; the perlite inevitably rises to the top. Also, top-watering and 'harsh' spraying (with droplets coarse, not a mist) seems to encourage germinations. Seeds do germinate in a tray, but they develop better roots when the pot has good drainage. Oh, and putting granulate media below a few inches of pure LFS is a practice of mine when it come to Nep seeds and large pots.

And then, just give them warmth (around 90-95F days, 75-80F nights) and humidity. They germinated consistently after about 6 weeks, but I still get germinations every week. These were very easy, fertile seeds for me.

I got pretty much nothing with the N. splendiana x mixta seeds that Tropics so kindly sent with the N. splendiana x ((veitchii x maxima) x veitchii) seeds.
 
Hmmmm. I did pretty much that - live LFS on peat & sand mix, in heated fishtank, under Grolite. I got nothing from both the Neps & D. odensis seeds. What I did get was a lot of VFT's & and some cobra lilys, as well as D. filiformis , Ceph, and binata leaf sprouts.

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Some things worked... and a couple didn't!
 
  • #10
I got just a few (I was expecting more) D. binata germinations under the same conditions that I've germinated all my seeds so far. I'm not sure if that means anything...

I'll have to try some VFT seeds in my LL terrarium after stratification, to see how they do.

Could you have lost them to rot? Seeing your setup, I'm considering that unlikely because of your good lighting, but I'm not sure. I don't see why those seeds worked for me, but not for you. ???
 
  • #11
Rot? Rotten luck... rotten skill? LOL!
 
  • #12
Lol! I'm sure it wasn't rotten skill. :)

Did you use live LFS for the N. splendiana x ((veitchii x maxima) x veitchii) seeds? I see that's what you used for the N. splendiana x mixta. Live LFS worked for SirKristoff... I used Better-Gro Orchid Moss LFS.
 
  • #13
oh god did it work for me lol.
i milled up some live LFS and mixed it in with peat that i nuked for about 15 seconds in the micro. cooled it down with water, then added the live LFS, sowed the seeds over the top and covered with plastic wrap. Seeds started germinating for me in about a week, and more are popping up, so far id say a good 60% of the seeds have germinated. more to come, many are about large enough to ship out. so i gotta get a few groups that i promised people out in about 2 weeks. looking good jimmy!!!!
and my lighting that i used for them was 4x 20watt 24" coolwhite and daylight spectrum fluorescent tubes, in at the time of first germination, was intermediate/highland conditions
 
  • #14
Thanks, SK!

I've traded just about as many of them away as I can. :D That's a lot, considering that I got very high germination rates, just like you. You got much faster germination, however. :)

I'm sure I still have a few seeds left to wait to germinate.
 
  • #15
It was definitel live LFS.
 
  • #16
I was the lucky recipient of the seedlings. They are looking a bit sad now but I think they will take right off. The seedling roots were really long.
 
  • #17
It makes you see just how ill-prepared fresh TC plants are for real-world growing. SG plants have a large root system to rely on, so they are easier to adapt to new conditions. Not that TC is bad. ;)

i more realistic statement is that some growers are ill prepared to deal with TC plants......ive got a dozen adult blooming Pings 2 to 3 inches in diameter with about that much for roots........does it mean they are ill prepared? no.....it means that they dont require much in roots for how i grow those particular plants which get their moisture from the localized high humidity and not directly from the soil.......the TC plants have grown what roots they need to live in TC conditions...."your" the one that chose to buy a plant fresh out of TC conditions and choose to try and grow it in something else.....there aint much trick to acclimating properly shipped TC plants...just brains enough to know sticking them in a tray along everything else as soon as you get them aint likely going to work.....i received 5 lowii with almost no roots 2 or 3 months ago.....all i did was put a ziplock tent over the pot and i still have all the plants alive, healthy and growing....and other than the tent they have received no special attention....i run into more problems with small seed grown neps than small TC....why? cause if yah grow alot of neps from seed your still going to run into runts and weak growers....just like any other plant....i see it in the veggies and fruits i plant in my garden and in the tropical plants i grow indoors....
 
  • #18
i more realistic statement is that some growers are ill prepared to deal with TC plants......ive got a dozen adult blooming Pings 2 to 3 inches in diameter with about that much for roots........does it mean they are ill prepared? no.....it means that they dont require much in roots for how i grow those particular plants which get their moisture from the localized high humidity and not directly from the soil.......the TC plants have grown what roots they need to live in TC conditions...."your" the one that chose to buy a plant fresh out of TC conditions and choose to try and grow it in something else.....there aint much trick to acclimating properly shipped TC plants...just brains enough to know sticking them in a tray along everything else as soon as you get them aint likely going to work.....i received 5 lowii with almost no roots 2 or 3 months ago.....all i did was put a ziplock tent over the pot and i still have all the plants alive, healthy and growing....and other than the tent they have received no special attention....i run into more problems with small seed grown neps than small TC....why? cause if yah grow alot of neps from seed your still going to run into runts and weak growers....just like any other plant....i see it in the veggies and fruits i plant in my garden and in the tropical plants i grow indoors....


Rattler, that is a very good point (sincerely). In fact, I'll have to revise my statement, because I didn't fully take that into account. It is safer to say that TC plants are ill-prepared to adapt efficiently to harsher conditions (after all, they are grown in 'perfect' conditions in-vitro until removal from TC), because they didn't need strong, healthy tissue in TC. They got their nutrients and moisture from the agar and ~100% humidity in their flasks. TC plants may not pose much of a problem to growers with a greenhouse(s), but growers without that luxury will very likely find them troublesome due to their lack of roots and resilient tissue. Of course, this applies for plants 'fresh' from TC, not the ones that are recieved hardened off well - those perform fine. :)

.....Whereas seed-grown plants have a root system that they've grown out and relied on for as long as they have been alive, so they have healthy roots and (likely) resilient leaf tissue that is adapted to <100% humidity. Therefore, they are easier to adapt to new, harsher conditions. For freshly-TC'd plants, anything outside of 'perfect' is harsher, and they may be able to adapt quickly to a certain degree, but nicely-grown SG plants can take much more.

Yes, there is the problem of weak SG individuals, whether it be by nature, or by the grower's hand. I've had a few pop up, one of which grew a round, conical green leaf rather than a proper cotyledon, and could not produce any more leaves because of that wonderful thing called natural selection. It happens. I don't purposefully send weak seedlings, because I don't take the time and effort to plot growth rates for each, etc. But weaker seedlings are bound to get distributed. That's why I am very generous in my seedling trades.

In summary, freshly TC'd plants are ill-prepared to adapt relatively quickly to new, harsher environments and to undergo rigors at the hands of growers than established SG'd plants, due to the differences in their tissue substanciality and propagation methods.

I started this thread to show off the nice roots of seed-grown Nepenthes, vigorous hybrids or not. :) They amaze me, that's for sure. I really don't want to get into a TC vs. SG debate, but i think there's something to learn from growing Nepenthes from seed. :-D
 
  • #19
i dont have a greenhouse.....nor do i live in one of the lucky spots.......i live in a very harsh climate to try and grow CP's........for fresh out of TC and seedlings....ziplocks and 10 gal tanks are your friends :D
 
  • #20
Yes, ziplocks and 10 gallon tanks are very much so my friends, too. warmth is a big concern of mine, here, so ziplocks and tanks do have their limits. :D Freshly TC's plants, at least for me, can dessicate/ overheat very easily if very special care and attention aren't given. :)
 
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